There’s a lot more to Jen Wilkin than meets the eye. Over the last 15 years, she’s become a popular Christian author and speaker whose books and Bible studies are used by hundreds of Southern Baptist churches (and churches in other denominations) across the U.S.
Yet, at the same time, Jen’s positions on a variety of biblical and social issues have stirred up a tempest of controversy, which discerning churches and individuals should be aware of…
In case you missed it yesterday on social media, you can read the remainder of my debut article, The Troubling Trajectory of Jen Wilkin at Center for Baptist Leadership.
Additional Resources:
Jen Wilkin (The “Troubling Trajectory” article {above} and the podcast episode {below} are both linked in the “Additional Resources” section of this article.)
In 2019, I published an article, The Mailbag: Counterarguments to Egalitarianism. Many of you have found it helpful over the years, so I recently freshened it up and added a few more egalitarian arguments – and the biblical counterarguments to refute them.
Below, you’ll find (only) the new arguments I’ve added to the original article. If you’d like to read or bookmark the whole article (original and new arguments) click here.
[Word] games people play…
Recently, a couple of “word game” arguments have started popping up in this ongoing tussle:
“The Bible never says that women can’t preach!”
No, there’s not a Bible verse that says, verbatim, “Women can’t preach.”. Somehow egalitarians think this is a “gotcha,” but this is really one of their weakest and most embarrassing arguments.
First Timothy 2:12 clearly says, “I do not allow a woman to teach…”. Their argument here is that the verse says “teach,” not “preach,” so they think they’ve found a loophole. But what is preaching? Think about what’s transpiring during preaching – it’s teaching! Whoever is preaching is imparting knowledge and explaining concepts to the hearers and encouraging them to understand, believe, and act on said knowledge and concepts. Preaching is teaching.
Furthermore, the passage that governs this issue isn’t just 1 Timothy 2:12. It’s 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7, Titus 1:5-9, and 2 Timothy 4:1-2. First Timothy 2:11-15 tell us who is not qualified to pastor, preach to and teach the congregation, and exercise authority in the gathering of the church body, and why. First Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9, and 2 Timothy 4:1-2 tell us who is qualified to do those things, and why and how.
First Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:1-9 are the qualifications for pastors, elders, and overseers. Not only do these passages exclude women from this office (“husband of one wife,” male referents {“he,” etc.} throughout), they also exclude all men who do not meet these qualifications.
Both of these passages require that a pastor/elder/overseer be “able to teach” the congregation. This is juxtaposed against the word “teach” (teach men, so, not teaching the congregation) in 1 Timothy 2:12. The primary function of a pastor/elder/overseer is to teach the congregation. Since God prohibits women from teaching the congregation in 2:12, women are disqualified from the office of pastor in 3:1-7, because they are not able to teach (according to God’s definition of teaching in this context {i.e. instructing the whole congregation}). Conversely, since God excludes women from being pastors/elders/overseers in 3:1-7 (“husband of one wife,” male referents {“he,” etc.} throughout), women are prohibited from the primary function of that office, teaching the congregation, in 2:12.
Second Timothy 4:1-2 then steps up to the plate and specifies the primary type of teaching a pastor/elder/overseer is to do: preaching. Remember, 1-2 Timothy and Titus are the pastoral epistles. They are God’s instructions to pastors/elders/overseers about how they’re to do their jobs and how God wants His church to be structured and to operate. These three epistles are God’s “policy and procedure” manual, if you will, for pastors and the church.
I do not permit a woman to teach… 1 Timothy 2:12 Therefore an overseer must be…able to teach, 1 Timothy 3:2 He must…be able to give instruction in sound doctrine Titus 1:9 I charge you [pastors]…preach the word 2 Timothy 4:1-2
And the second “word game” argument is like unto the first:
“The Bible never says women can’t be pastors!”
Again, the Bible does not say, verbatim, “Women cannot be pastors.”. That’s the first alleged “loophole”. The second alleged loophole* is that the Bible uses the terms “elder” and “overseer,” rather than “pastor,” in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9. So – follow this carefully – even if women can’t be elders and overseers, the argument goes, women can still be pastors.
*It bears noting here that if you’re looking for “loopholes,” “technicalities,” and ways to bypass or circumvent the plain teaching of Scripture so you can indulge your fleshly desires, you’re already sinning. You never have to step behind a pulpit or preach a single word. Your heart is in rebellion against God, and you need to repent.
This is another painfully cringe-worthy “argument”. Scripture uses the terms “elder,” “overseer,” and “pastor,” synonymously and interchangeably. That’s why you often see Christians use the phraseology “pastor/elder/overseer” – because these terms mean the same thing. For example, the Southern Baptist Convention’s statement of faith, the Baptist Faith and Message 2000:
This particular argument that “the Bible doesn’t prohibit women from being pastors” is tantamount to 1 Timothy 3:1-7 teaching that the church fellowship hall may not contain a couch, and Titus 1:5-9 teaching that church fellowship halls are not to have davenports, and egalitarians saying, “It’s perfectly fine for church fellowship halls to contain sofas. The Bible nowhere says that church fellowship halls can’t have sofas.”.
Sometimes egalitarians will try to argue that the terms “pastor” and “shepherd” indicate a different office and function from elder/overseer. They then argue that the Bible doesn’t say women can’t be “pastors” and “shepherds”. This is an attempt to bypass the passages which clearly address the issue of women leading and preaching to the church, 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7 and Titus 1:5-9, and instead, kidnaping and pressing into service passages which do not address this issue.
However the wheels immediately – almost comically – fall off this argument when you come to 1 Peter 5:1-2:
So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder …shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight…
1 Peter 5:1-2
Shepherding is the way that elders and overseers exercise oversight over the church, or “flock”. Pastors, overseers, shepherds, and elders are all the same person, position, office, and function.
If you’d like to read more, I highly recommend thes articles:
Sometimes appended to the aforementioned “The Bible doesn’t say women can’t be pastors!” argument is the argument that pastoring and shepherding are a spiritual gift rather than an office. Even if that were true in the way egalitarians seem to mean it (it’s not – God doesn’t “gift” people to do what He has clearly forbidden.), God has every right to dictate how we may and may not use any gift He chooses to give us. What loving parent would give her child the gift of a bicycle and not tell her how she may and may not use that bicycle for her own good and safety, and the good and safety of others?
If God gives someone the gift of generous giving, that person may notembezzle money from his employer so that he will have more to give.
Whatever “shepherding” means to any woman who thinks she has that gift, God does not allow her to use the gift of “shepherding” to hold the office or perform the function of an elder or overseer, including preaching, teaching men the Bible, or holding authority over men in the gathering of the church.
Christians are never allowed to exercise any spiritual gift in any way that violates the clear commands of Scripture.
Bigger fish to fry?
And then, there’s the “bigger fish to fry” argument, otherwise known as pitching an emotional, immature hissy fit. It goes something like this:
I am so sick and tired of this argument over whether or not women can preach or be pastors! There are people starving in Africa! Christians are being killed all over the world! There are Christian wedding vendors who are being persecuted for refusing to service homosexual “weddings”! Islam is making dangerous inroads in the United States! And you people want to argue that women can’t be pastors and preach?
You’re the one arguing, my egalitarian friend. Those of us on the biblical side of things are simply stating what Scripture has always said. There wouldn’t be an argument without you egalitarians arguing against what God has plainly decreed. And by the way, what are you doing to stop the starvation in Africa, the martyrdom, the persecution, Islam, and all the other “more important” issues in the world? Why don’t you simply stop arguing that women can be pastors, preach, etc., submit to and obey Scripture, and instead devote your time to getting to work on all those other problems?
Additionally, God never presents spewing emotional vomit everywhere as any sort of spiritually mature, godly, logical way to present an argument. Nor does the fact that “There are bigger problems in the world!” ever excuse sin or ever cause God to instruct us to deal with all the “big problems” in the world first before we can ever confront, address, and correct “little” sins. Even Jesus said, “The poor, you will always have with you.”.
“There are bigger problems in the world!” is never a reason to refrain from doing the right thing. And not only that, but there are Christians all over the place addressing all of these “more important problems”. It’s not like God gave us only enough bandwidth or personnel to address one problem at a time. We’re made in His image. We can multi-task.
But let’s try to apply this “argument” to some other scenarios in order to demonstrate how silly it is:
“What, God? You’re telling them to stone me for picking up sticks on the Sabbath? Don’t You know there are about a dozen pagan nations out here just waiting to attack us any day? And this is what You want to spend Your time on?”
“Are you kidding me, God? All I did was tell a little white lie about the selling price of my land and You’re going to strike me dead for that? Don’t You know the Romans are out here crucifying Christians -even Jesus!- and feeding Christians to the lions? Why aren’t You doing something about that?”
Yeah. You really don’t want to be arguing against God and His commands.
“Are female ‘pastors’ and preachers false teachers, or are they just sinning?”
“Whoa, Nellie! Hold up just a cotton-pickin’ minute, there!” That question is probably a little stunning if you’re a professing Christian who’s never before encountered the idea that God prohibits women from being pastors, preaching to men, teaching the Bible to men, and holding authority over men in the gathering of the Body of Christ – the church.
Sorry to have to rip that Band-Aid off. I know it stings, but He does.
We know from passages like 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7 and Titus 1:5-9 that women who do those things – and the men who allow or encourage them to – are in sin, because when God tells us not to do something, and we do it anyway, that’s sin. It’s the very definition of sin.
Women who “pastor,” preach, teach Scripture to, and hold authority over men in the gathering of the Body – and the men who allow or encourage them to do so – are in sin.
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
…appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man is beyond reproach, the husband of one wife…
1 Timothy 2:12, Titus 1:5-6 (Excerpted)
And no, that command wasn’t just Paul’s personal, human opinion, or a command that was only for the Ephesian church at that time, or because the women of that time were uneducated, or teaching false doctrine, or more easily deceived, or any of the other man-made arguments against what Scripture plainly says.
And no, it’s not OK for a woman to violate that command simply because she has her husband’s and/or pastor’s permission, or that she’s under his “authority” or “mantle” or “covering”. No one has the authority to tell someone it’s OK to do something God has said is sin. Where God says “no,” no mere mortal has the right to say “yes”.
And no, it’s not all right for a woman to preach to, or teach the Bible to men in any gathering of the Body just so long as it’s not the 11:00 a.m. worship service on Sunday morning inside a church building. God places no such exceptions on His command. The church is the gathering Body of Christ regardless of what time, which day of the week, what size the group, or which type of venue in which they meet. Christians are the church. When Christians are gathered for worship and instruction in the Word – in the worship service, in adult Bible study and Sunday School classes, in parachurch organizations, at Christian conferences, concerts, rallies, and other events – the church is gathered, and biblically qualified men are to lead and teach them.
When God clearly commands us in His written Word not to do something, Christians say, “Yes, and amen, Lord. Please help me flee as far away from that sin as I can get.” Christians do not search high and low, far and wide for any possible exception, loophole, technicality, or exemption that would allow us to put one over on God so we can continue doing what our flesh really wants to do, all the while deceiving ourselves into believing we’re not actually sinning. You might fool yourself and others, but you’ll never fool God.
Christians do not search for any possible exception, loophole, technicality, or exemption that would allow us to continue doing what our flesh *really* wants to do, while deceiving ourselves into believing we’re not actually sinning.
Now why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
Luke 6:46
So, yes, without a doubt, women who become “pastors,” preach to men, teach the Scriptures to, or exercise authority over men in the gathering of the Body – and the men who allow or encourage them to do so – are sinning.
And a pastor who allows a woman to do so is not only sinning, he is also biblically disqualified – either temporarily or permanently – from pastoral ministry thrice over, because he is failing to hold to the trustworthy Word as taught, he is failing to give instruction in sound doctrine that only biblically qualified men may fill these roles in the church, and he is failing to rebuke the woman who is contradicting the sound doctrine of the biblical roles of men and women.
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
Titus 1:9
So, violating God’s command against women “pastoring” and preaching is a sin, but does it make the woman who does so a false teacher? After all, if a woman committed adultery, or became a homosexual, or even killed someone, we would say she was sinning, but we wouldn’t call her a false teacher, would we?
Well, we might, in a sense, if she continued openly and unrepentantly doing those things while simultaneously claiming to be a Christian – and not just a Christian, but a Christian leader for people to look up to, learn from, and follow.
We would say that her behavior and example are lying to everyone and teaching the false doctrine that adultery, homosexuality, and murder are not sins, and that someone can be a Christian – even a good Christian leader – while openly, unrepentantly, and continuously committing these sins.
Further, her behavior and example are teaching everyone who sees her that if you come to a command of Scripture that you don’t like, it’s perfectly fine to disobey or ignore it.
Try to imagine your pastor standing in the pulpit on Sunday morning and saying, “Good morning, church! While you’re getting your Bibles out, I’d just like to let you know that if you come across a command of Scripture you don’t like, you are free to disobey or ignore it. In fact, doing whatever that command tells you not to do isn’t even a sin! Do it all you like! You’ll still be a Christian in good standing with God and with this church!”.
How long do you think it would take before your elders and/or deacons bodily hauled your so-called “pastor” out of the pulpit and firmly planted his posterior out on the curb?
If you go to any sort of halfway decent church, I’m guessing they’d get to the platform and lay hands on him before all the words were even out of his mouth.
And yet this is what happens every time a woman inserts herself into the role of pastor, or stands up before a co-ed gathering of adult Christians to preach or teach. The words may not be coming out of her mouth, but her behavior is actively teaching everyone in that local church or Christian gathering that…
a woman “pastoring” or preaching to men isn’t a sin (this isn’t only false doctrine, she’s also lying)
a woman can be a Christian – even a good Christian leader – while openly, unrepentantly, and continuously sinning by “pastoring” or preaching to men
if you come across a command of Scripture you don’t like, you are free to disobey or ignore it.
Why is it wrong for a (male) pastor to say these things verbally, but perfectly permissible for a female “pastor” or preacher to say these same things through her behavior and example?
Why is it wrong for a (male) pastor to say these things verbally, but perfectly permissible for a female “pastor” or preacher to say these same things through her behavior and example?
And this is just one more example of the wheels falling off of egalitarianism. Egalitarian. That word means “equal”. It means that women should be treated equally with men.
Well, what’s good for the gander is good for the goose. If a (male) pastor would be rebuked and dismissed for teaching such abominable false doctrine and lies about God and His Word, in an egalitarian world, a female “pastor” or preacher should be rebuked and dismissed for doing so, as well. You can’t have it both ways, e-gals. Either men and women are to be held to exactly the same standard, treated exactly the same, or they’re not.
Women “pastoring,” preaching, teaching the Bible to, and holding authority over men in the church has become a huge, complicated, sinful mess. Fortunately, the solution is clear cut: repent and obey Scripture.
For women, that means turning away from the pulpit and turning around to discover the joy awaiting them as they robustly fill out the crucial role of women in the church: discipling younger women, teaching children, serving and giving in any number of wonderful ways which don’t require them to do what Scripture has forbidden.
For men and pastors, that means being men of God, stepping up to fill those roles only men may fill, teaching the sound doctrine of the roles of men and women in the church, and rebuking those who contradict that sound doctrine.
When women and men turn from the sin and false doctrine of women taking on the roles God has restricted to men, the church will be healthier and everyone, including God, will be happier.
When you gaze out across the landscape of the visible church through an earthly, superficial lens, you’ve got to scratch your head and wonder, “Has evangelicalism lost its ever-lovin’ mind?”.
And the answer is to take off those inch-deep dollar store glasses, fire up the electron microscope of Scripture, look long and deep into God’s Word, and reply to yourself, “Of course it has, silly rabbit. What did you expect?”. The Bible is perfectly clear about these things and why they happen.
This year (2019), Beth Moore has caused quite the stir by hiding in plain sight the fact that she will be preaching the sermon “doing Mother’s Day” this coming Sunday, presumably at the Tomball, Texas, campus of the church she attends (founded and pastored by her son-in-law Curtis Jones1) Bayou City Fellowship:
I say “hiding in plain sight” because she has given enough of an impression here that she is preaching the sermon to test the waters and see what the reaction will be, but has worded her tweet vaguely enough that if she meets too much resistance she can still decide to back out of preaching, give a brief word of biblically appropriate Mother’s Day greeting or encouragement to the ladies at another point during the service, and come back and claim with wide-eyed innocence that that’s what she meant all along by saying she was “doing” Mother’s Day. (Someone asked Beth point blank, in a subsequent tweet if Beth’s tweet meant that she would be preaching the Sunday service and Beth did not answer her. If she’s not, why not just say so? And if she is and isn’t ashamed of it, why not just say so?)
I say “presumably” at BCF-Tomball because, even though she publicizes specific details about time and place with other speaking engagements, she has not mentioned (at least not anywhere I can find as of the time I’m writing this) the specific church she’s preaching at on Sunday, and the church hasn’t mentioned on their website that she’ll be the guest preacher. Additionally, unlike other speaking engagements Beth does, this speaking engagement is not listed on the calendar of events at her website and she hasn’t mentioned it (other than the tweet above) on social media. With all this “open secrecy” I will be surprised if the video or audio of her sermon is posted on YouTube and/or the church website.
Why all this cloak and dagger about the highest profile woman in the Southern Baptist Convention2, possibly in the entirety of evangelicalism, preaching the Mother’s Day sermon?
Because she knows it’s unbiblical. Because weknow it’s unbiblical. And it doesn’t take an electron microscope to see it. It’s right there, in black and white, jumping off the pages of Scripture:
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12
It couldn’t be more clear. And for pastors who ought to know better to either fall prey to or intentionally perpetuate the serpentine seduction of “Did God really say you can’t preach?”, using Mother’s Day as an excuse to induce a woman to sin by having her deliver the sermon is a slap in the face – to God, to the church, and to women.
Using Mother’s Day as an excuse to induce a woman to sin by having her deliver the sermon is a slap in the face – to God, to the church, and to women.
What do his actions say to God? “I don’t like Your way and I won’t submit to it. I don’t trust that Your way is right regardless of what the world says. I’ll do what’s right in my own eyes.” It’s the lesson his church learns from his actions as well.
But why is inviting a woman to preach an affront to Christian women? Take a stroll down to verse 15 of 1 Timothy 2:
Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
Not only does the pastor who invites a woman to preach adulterate the role God has set aside specifically for men, he also denigrates one of the good and holy roles God has specifically and intentionally set aside for women: the role of literal, and spiritual, mother.
Eve shattered God’s perfect, unique design for women by allowing herself to be seduced into rebellion. But are we daughters of Eve forever doomed to bear the shame and guilt of her sin, never to have a role in building the Kingdom? Pariahs, to be shunned and shut out of God’s plan? No, praise God! Through the cross, the good works Christ has ordained for Christian women to do – including mothering our own children and being spiritual mothers to our daughters in the faith – redeem the prestige of women. Mothering, in every sense in which God intended it, raises the role of women back to its rightful place in God’s plan.
And we don’t need men – especially men who are supposed to be rightly leading God’s people – to come along and entice us to mess that all up again.
But that’s exactly what’s happening.
When a pastor invites a woman to sin by taking over the pulpit, he drags her and the women of his church right back to post-Fall Eden. He trashes the rank and repute of our God-given high and holy role of mother and implicitly says Being a woman isn’t good enough. You have to steal the role of men to be valued and esteemed.
When a pastor invites a woman to sin by taking over the pulpit, he implicitly says, “Being a woman isn’t good enough. You have to steal the role of men to be valued and esteemed.”
We don’t need to be second rate imitations of men in order to “count”. We need to be first rate, full throttle, take it to the limit women of God. God loves us and values us so much more than to give men a special and amazing role and leave us without an equally special and amazing, yet totally distinct, role. The God who spoke the universe into existence and planned out an unparalleled purpose for every single plant, animal, bacterium, and every other atom of the cosmos, did not leave the queen of His creation roleless. He did not bring us into being only to toddle along after the Hairy Ones trying to copy their every move. How unloving of God, and devaluing to women, would that be? Why would you want to act like a man when God blessed you with the gift of being a woman?
If, by God’s good Providence, you’ve “stumbled across” this article and you’re a woman who has been invited to preach, I plead with you: don’t buy the lie. Say no. Your Savior has a whole treasure chest of good works for you to do as a woman. You are worth infinitely more to Him as the woman He created you to be than you are to the world, or a worldly church, as a cheap knock-off of a man.
The practice of denigrating women, devaluing our God-given role, disobeying God, and darkening the understanding of the church by inviting women to sinfully take the pulpit must stop in the house of God.
Let us be the mothers our own children need, raising up a godly seed unto the Lord. Let us be the spiritual mothers longed for by younger women in the faith, daughters orphaned by Christian women who have abandoned them to take on the role of men. The practice of denigrating women, devaluing our God-given role, disobeying God, and darkening the understanding of the church by inviting women to sinfully take the pulpit must stop in the house of God and be replaced by strong godly women, unafraid and unashamed to flourish in the precious role our Lord has blessed us with.
Especially on Mother’s Day.
Updates to this article:
1Curtis Jones (Beth Moore’s son-in-law) resigned his pastorate at BCF in July 2020.
2Beth Moore has left the Southern Baptist Convention and is now attending an Anglican church where – surprise, surprise – she preaches from time to time.
Ladies- have you read my Mailbag article, Counter Arguments to Egalitarianism? If not, I would encourage you to read it before watching today’s movie. And if you’re new to the complementarian vs. egalitarian kerfuffle, I would encourage you to read, not only that article, but all of the articles in the “Additional Resources” section of that article as well.
Why?
Because today’smovie, Battle for the Minds, approaches the issue from the egalitarian perspective, and you need to be sure you’re firmly grounded in the biblical perspective so that “no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.”
Also, today’s movie is kind of like a homework assignment. How would you apply the complementarian apologetics you learned in the Mailbag article as well as your knowledge of Scripture to the egalitarian arguments and pronouncements being made in this movie?
Battle for the Minds was released on PBS in 1997. It presents the egalitarian viewpoint on the stage of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary’s transition from theological liberalism to biblical theological conservatism under the then-new leadership of Dr. Albert Mohler, and delves into a bit of the Conservative Resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention around that time as well. (As an aside, I am not familiar with any of the people in the film presented as being on the egalitarian side except for Anne Graham Lotz. I’m only familiar with a few of those on the complementarian side: Albert Mohler, David Miller, and Paige Patterson.)
If you are Southern Baptist, I strongly encourage you to watch and carefully consider these events from our history in light of the battle we are now facing in the SBC concerning the role of women in the church and in the Convention. Because what Nancy Ammerman says at the 37:04 mark is correct. Since all SBC churches are autonomous, many Southern Baptists only concern themselves with their own churches and don’t trouble themselves to worry about what’s going on at the national level. But when you do this, you fail to take into consideration that what’s going on at the national level trickles down to your local church in the form of what’s being taught to your next pastor or staff member at our seminaries; the authors, musicians, and other content creators being sold (and not being sold) at LifeWay; the theology in the Sunday School and VBS curriculum your church uses, etc. It also affects the theology and ecclesiology our IMB and NAMB missionaries and church planters use and teach. And finally, the leadership and issues at the national level are the face the Southern Baptist Convention presents to the world.
But even if you’re not Southern Baptist, you will probably still find this movie informative to the way your own church or denomination is responding to the issue of the biblical role of women in the church.
A couple of things to be on the lookout for, and give consideration to, as you watch Battle for the Minds:
•Notice the amount of Scripture presented in the movie. Is any Scripture presented that backs up the egalitarian view? Is egalitarianism vs. complementarianism presented as a biblical and spiritual issue or an “our position vs. their position” issue?
•Note the sex of each person on the egalitarian side and the sex of each person on the complementarian side. Are any complementarian women presented? Do you think there were absolutely no women on the complementarian side of the issue when these events were transpiring? Do you see how the exclusion of complementarian women in this film gives the subtle illusion that a) all women are egalitarian, and b) the reason men are complementarian is because they’re sexist and trying to protect their power and position – the same argument people like Beth Moore are attempting to make today?* Do you think it was sexist to exclude women from the complementarian side?
