Tag: Women pastors

Welcome to another “potpourri” edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er, kinda? sometimes?) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question.

I like to take the opportunity in these potpourri editions to let new readers know about my comments/e-mail/messages policy. I’m not able to respond individually to most e-mails and messages, so here are some helpful hints for getting your questions answered more quickly. Remember, the search bar (at the very bottom of each page) can be a helpful tool!

Or maybe I answered your question already? Check out my article The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs to see if your question has been answered and to get some helpful resources.

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The Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) faith is very prominent where I live. I previously worked with many SDA, and I actually liked that they observed the Sabbath on Saturday because it meant that I worked on their [day of worship], so they worked on mine. Other than dietary restrictions, I didn’t find any of their core beliefs any different from my own. However, I’m sure some things simply weren’t discussed, so I’m not knowledgeable about all of their beliefs. Are you familiar with SDA? Would you classify them as Christian?

SDA is, at best, not doctrinally sound, and, at worst, a cult. Similarly to Mormonism, the New Apostolic Reformation, Oneness Pentecostalism, etc., it is a religion that identifies as “Christian” and uses unbiblically redefined Christian terminology.

Let me direct you to CARM, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry, which has done far more research on SDA than I have. It is a great resource for information on cults, sects, and religions.

I’ve recently added the SDA link, as well as all of the other links below, to the Popular False Teachers & Unbiblical Trends tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page.

Seventh-day Adventism

Jehovah’s Witnesses

Oneness Pentecostalism

King James Only-ism/KJV Only-ism

Islam

Henri Nouwen

Finneyism (Charles Finney)

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I would like your opinion about VBS.  I know….i may sound critical or unchristian-like to feel differently about this annual event held at almost every church even though I have helped out in the past with VBS at our church but I walked away wondering about the effectiveness of it all.  On the final day of VBS, there were children that raised their hands to accept Jesus after a week of crafts, snacks, games, songs, dances, lights, colorful decorations. Did they truly know what the decision was truly about?  We never saw them or their families again.  I know when school is out for the year, parents put together a schedule of the dates and area churches where they can drop their kids off for VBS activities.  They see it all like it’s free child care. 

I read about one pastor who questioned the goals of VBS as well, seeing all the money spent and energy from all the volunteers, so willing to reach the unsaved.  He decided to redirect all the resources like the lessons, activities, and helpers for weekly Sunday School while reaching out, not just to the children, but also to the families. I guess my concern comes from seeing the trend in so many churches today, that are relying on entertainment more and more and less and less on the gospel. I know children need fun activities to engage them but I would like your thoughts on it all.

For those not in the know, VBS stands for Vacation Bible School. I explained what VBS is and gave a few of my thoughts about it in part 2 of our A Word Fitly Spoken podcast miniseries, That’s (Church) Life! – How to “Do Church”(cued):

I think every church needs to decide for itself whether or not VBS is a good choice for their particular circumstances and context.

Let’s see if I can address some of your more specific concerns:

I know….i may sound critical or unchristian-like to feel differently

This is a very important point to address. I’d like all of us diehard VBS-ers to take a deep breath, take a step back, and consciously grasp something here: VBS can be a very good thing, but is not indispensable. The church got along just fine without it for 2000 years, and any church today can also get along just fine without it.

Our sister’s comment here is indicative of the fact that VBS (and other church traditions) can sometimes be so engrained that it becomes an idol. And when a faithful Christian sister comes along and says, “I don’t think VBS is a fit for my church,” or, “Here’s an aspect of VBS I think is unbiblical,” or inefficient or whatever, and she feels like she’s got to brace herself against those who would accuse her of being “critical or unchristian-like to feel differently,” then the idolatry of VBS is a greater problem than the person questioning some aspect of it.

On the final day of VBS, there were children that raised their hands to accept Jesus…Did they truly know what the decision was truly about?

This is a huge problem, but it’s not the fault of VBS itself, it’s the fault of the pastor for allowing things to be done this way. This type of easy-believism, “Just repeat this prayer after me and you’re saved,” Finneyistic approach to salvation has probably created more false converts than any other single evangelistic “method”.

I can assure you that churches which are more doctrinally sound don’t engage in shenanigans like this. At my church, the kids are taught the VBS Bible lessons and the gospel is presented on parents’ night. During the week, teachers and pastors make sure everyone -parents and children- knows that if they have any questions about the gospel or salvation, they are available to talk, one on one.

a week of crafts, snacks, games, songs, dances, lights, colorful decorations…I guess my concern comes from seeing the trend in so many churches today, that are relying on entertainment more and more and less and less on the gospel. I know children need fun activities to engage them…

There’s nothing wrong with fun and games at VBS, as it sounds like you’d agree, especially if all of that hoopla is relegated to one week a year, or on an occasional basis. VBS-style fun should be a special treat, not the regular fare of Sunday School and other children’s Bible and worship activities at church every week. Again, churches being houses of entertainment rather than houses of worship is not the fault of VBS itself, but of the pastor (or “pastor,” as the case may be).

We never saw them or their families again.

That’s typical of VBS (and most other evangelistic efforts) at most churches. We do an outreach thing and we share the gospel with them. Most of the seed is going to land on the path, or the rocky soil, or be eaten by the birds. The Bible tells us this is going to happen. We scatter seed anyway.

One thing that can be helpful (and many churches do this) is for the church to take the information the parents provided when registering their child for VBS and follow up with home visits and/or other forms of contact after VBS is over, and even throughout the year.

I know when school is out for the year, parents put together a schedule of the dates and area churches where they can drop their kids off for VBS activities. They see it all like it’s free child care.

Great! Their kids are learning the Bible for hours every day during the summer! That’s awesome! (That is, of course, assuming all the churches they’re taking the kids to are doctrinally sound, which I know is a huge assumption. But, in theory, great!)

Seriously, where would you rather those unchurched kids be spending their days? Daycare? Some public school (or other non-Christian) program? At home watching TV and playing video games?

Uh uh. I would even encourage local, doctrinally sound churches to band together and make sure none of their VBS weeks overlap for this very purpose.

I read about one pastor who questioned the goals of VBS as well, seeing all the money spent and energy from all the volunteers, so willing to reach the unsaved.  He decided to redirect all the resources like the lessons, activities, and helpers for weekly Sunday School while reaching out, not just to the children, but also to the families.

That’s absolutely fine. Like I said, each church should decide for itself whether or not VBS is a fit. If not, there’s no shame in stewarding your time and efforts in a different direction for evangelism. (But do keep in mind, most churches are aiming to reach the parents through the children’s participation in VBS. That’s why they have parents’ night, follow up, etc.) There are also churches that do VBS in the evenings when more parents can be around, and even churches that do adult VBS (adult level Bible study, worship, refreshments, and possibly a craft or other fun activity).

If you have questions or concerns about your own church’s VBS, I would encourage you to set up an appointment with your pastor and very kindly and lovingly discuss them with him.

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I don’t know why I keep seeing your post show up on my facebook feed when I don’t even follow you but I do.

Hi there! What a super friendly way to begin an email to a stranger! Is this the first impression of your character you really want to make?

Readers, I get messages, comments, and emails from professing Christians all the time from people I’ve never heard of or interacted with, and this is the kind of tone (actually, often much worse) they lead with. And then they expect me to take them seriously as Christians offering their thoughts on biblical topics.

I can think of three reasons:

1. Somebody you’re friends with follows me and shares my posts, or…
   
2. It’s the algorithm. Perhaps you follow several Christian women teachers and for once a social media algorithm actually worked for me instead of against me and dropped my posts into your feed thinking you’d be interested in following me, too, and…
   
3. It’s God’s Providence. The Lord knew you needed to hear whatever part of His Word I was discussing that day and He used my post to get your attention and teach you something. Count your blessings that He didn’t knock you off your high horse and blind you to get the message across.

It grieved me to see your latest post to all of your followers about women pastors spending eternity in hell.  

It grieves me that you’ve so badly mischaracterized whichever post this was. (Readers, if you’re going to write to me to complain about something I’ve written, please be specific so I’ll know what you’re talking about. I’ve written a lot of things over the past 18 years. I need to know, specifically, what you’re upset about so I can take a look at it and correct, clarify, or explain it.)

If you’re talking about this article, I clearly explained that people do not go to Hell for committing a particular sin. People go to Hell because they aren’t saved.

The Bible also tells us that people who are genuinely born again Christians do not live in habitual, willful, unrepentant sin, such as the habitual, willful, unrepentant sin of a woman pretending to be a “pastor”.

When you put these two truths together, the result is that the profession of female “pastor” doesn’t attract applicants who are genuinely saved and pursuing holiness, because those women don’t want to live in sin. It attracts women who are lost because they do want to live in sin. It’s the same with any sinful lifestyle: thievery, promiscuity, homosexuality, murder, etc.

The majority of people living sinful lifestyles are not saved. That’s why, unless they repent and believe the gospel, they will spend their eternity in Hell.

I am not a paster (sic) myself, but I have 3 friends who are and they are the most amazing women.  

Let me illustrate something for you:

I’m not a lesbian myself, but I have three friends who are, and they are the most amazing women.

Do you see the faulty reasoning there? The opinion that they’re “amazing women” doesn’t mean they’re not sinning. If they’re disobeying God’s Word, they’re sinning, “amazingness” notwithstanding.

One of them works as a chaplin (sic) in a hospital.

A chaplain in a hospital is not a pastor. (But readers, this mistaking of chaplains for pastors is exactly why I advise women not to serve as chaplains. See #27 here.)

She is the head chaplin and has 3 other female chaplins that report to her. Men do not want to do this work. If it wasn’t for this group of lovey ladies that hospital would have no chaplins at all.  My friend has personally led at least half a dozen people to Christ on their death bed, and I am guessing some of the other ladies have done so as well.

Let me say it again. A chaplain is not a pastor. The question is not how wonderful your friend is. The question is, “Is she disobeying Scripture?”. From your description, I have no idea. As I’ve said here (#27), there are all kinds of different job descriptions for chaplains. Some may require women to disobey Scripture, some may not. If all your friend is doing is visiting the sick and dying, sharing the gospel with them, and maybe doing some administrative duties, she’s not violating Scripture.

It’s absolutely fine and biblical for women to do these things I’ve described – not because your friend can’t find men to fill the job, but because the women who do them are not disobeying Scripture. Conversely, it is not OK for a woman to be a pastor (again, a chaplain is not a pastor) simply because a man is not readily available for the job. I would encourage you to read my recent Mailbag article I Have to Preach Because No Man Will Step Up.

My next friend in in charge of a clothing closet and soup kitchen for women and children who are homeless or in abusive relationships.  

A person who is in charge of a clothing closet and soup kitchen is not a pastor. She’s ministering (the verb, “minister” does not mean “pastor”) to women and children. This is not prohibited by Scripture (as women being “pastors” is), it is commanded by Scripture.

These woman and children come to her and are clothed and fed and ministered to.  As a result of her work, 15 children who frequent her soup kitchen are spending this week at VBS and learning about Jesus, while their mothers are getting some much-needed counseling.

All of that is great, but your friend is not a pastor and she’s not doing anything unbiblical. Again, the question is not, “Is my friend producing great results?”. The question is: “Is my friend obeying Scripture?”. And the answer to that question seems to be, “Yes.”.

My last friend does grief counseling,

A grief counselor is not a pastor.

She has spent the last 10 years comforting couples that have lost their children and walking people through the grieving process. She is the first person to show up at the doorstep after a church member has passed so that she can comfort the family members.

That’s wonderful. I’ve mentioned in past articles and podcasts that because of the compassionate and caring way God has generally wired women, we are often uniquely suited to minister to the bereaved even better than men sometimes are. But that doesn’t make any woman who does so a pastor.

Although it’s wiser for a pastor or elder (with or without their wives) to formally counsel couples and men, your friend is not violating Scripture by ministering to those who have lost a loved one, she is obeying Scripture.

These 3 women spend their days feeding and clothing the lost and hungry, consoling the sick and dying, and comforting the grieving.  

That’s great. You said you had three women friends who are pastors. None of the women you’ve told me about are pastors, and, from what you have told me, it sounds like they’re all being obedient to Scripture.

Quite frankly they do the work that no one else wants to do. They are out there doing this important work and they do it with such grace and compassion and patience and gentleness.

Again, that’s not the issue. The issue is whether or not they’re obeying Scripture. It sounds like these ladies are obeying Scripture.

But I need you to hear me on this: If they were disobeying Scripture, “Nobody else wants to do this work,” and “They’re doing this important work with grace…” would not excuse their sin.

There is never any excuse for disobeying God.

Christians are not people who “obey” God if it’s convenient, or if it works, or if it’s in line with what I want to do, or if it produces “good” results. Christians are people who obey God no matter what, and we leave the outcome up to Him.

Jesus tells us in Matthew 7:18 that a bad tree can not bear good fruit.  If they are such bad trees…

I never said they were bad trees. You jumped to that wrong conclusion and falsely accused me of characterizing them as “bad trees” because (and I’m sorry this is going to sting a little, but I would not be loving you well if I didn’t tell you the truth) you don’t know your Bible. You clearly don’t know what a pastor is and isn’t, and what does and doesn’t constitute obedience to Scripture.

(But it’s never too late to start studying your Bible, and I encourage you to do so! If you need some help, check out the Bible Studies tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page.)

(If they are such bad trees,) then why do I see such an abundant harvest coming out of their lives?  

But you’re not judging their “harvest” according to rightly handled Scripture. You’re judging their “harvest” according to what seems good to you and according to what seems to “work” and produce “successful” results. That’s pragmatism, not biblical Christianity. In biblical Christianity, rightly handled Scripture is our measuring stick, not what we personally like or the anticipated outcome.

It grieves me to see you teaching these people who look up to you as some kind of authority figure that they “will likely spend eternity in hell”.  

And it grieves me that you have gotten yourself all worked up and falsely accused a sister in Christ (me), not because of something I’ve done wrong, but because you don’t know your Bible. It grieves me any time professing Christian women don’t know their Bibles.

One thing I am thankful for is, that when it comes to where these beautiful ladies will spend eternity, Jesus is the one that makes that call.

Of course He does. I never said, nor do I think that I “make that call”. I’m just repeating what He has clearly revealed to all of us about it in His written Word (you can read it for yourself if you don’t believe me). If you have a problem with that, your problem is not with me, but with Him.

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I just read your article on divorce and remarriage*. I am struggling with this right now and it’s making me sick. We are visiting a new church, so I’m uncomfortable talking with the Pastor just yet. I recently spoke with a few people with the Permeance of Marriage view. They told me I was headed to hell unless I get out of my remarriage. My ex husband was unfaithful and proceeded with a divorce a few months later 35 yrs. ago. I’ve read Jesus’s teachings over and over and it seems that he was talking about the betrothal period for the exception clause. My spirit is very anxious right now. I’m old and don’t how I can divorce and fend for myself. Anyway, I just want some peace and don’t know what to do. Thank you for your articles.

*(I’ve written several articles about divorce and remarriage. I don’t know which of them this reader is referring to.)

Take a deep breath and rest in the peace of Christ. 

Here is what I’m understanding you to say:

Thirty-five years ago, your husband committed adultery and then divorced you. At some point, you subsequently remarried someone else. 

Assuming I have that correct, please do not listen to the people who are telling you that you have to divorce your current husband. That is completely unbiblical counsel and demonstrates that they know nothing about what the Bible says about salvation or about divorce and remarriage. They are also not representative of the true permanence view of marriage. People representing the biblical permanence view would simply have told you after your divorce was final that you could not get married again, but they certainly would not have come along after you were already remarried and told you to get a divorce. That doesn’t make sense. It is in contradiction with the permanence view.

As to losing your salvation (i.e. going to hell if you don’t get a divorce), that is ridiculous and borders on the heretical. If you are genuinely saved, you cannot lose your salvation for any reason. (If you’re not genuinely saved, you don’t have any salvation to lose.) I hope you’ll find my article The Mailbag: Can unforgiveness cause you to you lose your salvation? to be reassuring. It’s on a different topic, but it deals with the issue of whether or not someone can lose her salvation.

I would also like to point out that you did not sin in the ending of your first marriage. You were sinned against. Your husband committed adultery. Your husband divorced you. That does not preclude you from remarrying, biblically. Even if you had been the one to pursue the divorce, you could have remarried without sinning. Adultery is one biblical allowance for divorce, abandonment is the other. 

(And none of the divorce exceptions passages are talking about the betrothal period in biblical times. During the betrothal period, the couple was considered married in every way except that the marriage had not yet been consummated, but if you’ll read all three of these passages in context, it’s clear that they’re all talking about consummated marriages because they all speak in terms of adultery, “one flesh,” sex inside of marriage, etc. They are not talking about betrothed couples, they are talking about married couples.

At any rate, this is neither here nor there as it pertains to marriage today. In our culture, we do not have betrothals akin to the betrothals observed during biblical times.)

You’re receiving some very poor and unbiblical counsel from these people who ostensibly hold the permanence view. If those people were at your previous church, and you’ve now found a doctrinally sound church, that’s good. But if this is the unbiblical view your new church is teaching, I would urge you to find a new church that’s doctrinally sound and where Scripture is handled correctly. Being in a sound church where you’re being taught biblically should help alleviate your anxiety.

Rest in the truth of God’s Word, sister. The truth shall set you free.

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If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.