Tag: Women pastors

Christian women, Church, Complementarianism, Men

Adam 3.0: Meanwhile, Back in the Garden, It’s Deja Vu All Over Again

Michelle Lesley

Originally published June 26, 2014

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

1 Timothy 2:12-14

Because it’s my passion to see Christian women become holy, passionate, obedient disciples of Jesus Christ, I’ve dealt with this passage a lot and done a lot of research on it. Scripture is crystal clear that women are not to instruct men in the Scriptures in the church in the capacity of pastor or teacher, nor are they to hold authority over men in other positions in the church. (I’ve outlined Scripture’s case for this here if you’d like to do some further study.) And, unfortunately, there are many women in the church who are disobeying this Scripture (I used to be one of them)– some out of rebellion, and some out of ignorance. But until recently, I –and every other piece of information I’ve studied on the subject– have dealt with the issue of women stepping outside their God-ordained role in the church strictly as a women’s issue.

A few days ago, a friend of mine asked for my opinion on a Q&A video produced by a well known pastor. The pastor was asked, “Is it a sin for men to listen to women speakers [female Christian conference speakers, pastors, teachers, etc.]?”

And that’s when it hit me. I’d never heard this question addressed, or even asked, before. First Timothy 2:12ff is always dealt with from the perspective of women and towards women – that this is a women’s sin issue.

But to treat this role rebellion strictly as the sin of women is to pour gasoline on the fire. If it’s a singularly women’s problem, then it naturally falls on women with a right understanding of God’s Word on the issue to deal with it, right? And if these women are the ones who have to confront and deal with this sin, even at the local church level, they’re being placed smack dab in the misappropriated role they’re trying to fight because they’re being asked to do the job of elders and pastors whose responsibility it is to maintain order and discipline in the church.

In other words, when it’s time to deal with the sin of role busting, don’t send a woman in to do a man’s job.

When it’s time to deal with the sin of role busting, don’t send a woman in to do a man’s job.

The fact that there’s even a need for an article like this, never mind that a woman is writing it, is indicative of the pervasiveness of the problem. Why do we so rarely hear pastors or other Christian men exhorting men in the church to stand on God’s Word, properly fill out their own role in the church, and also deal with the problem of female disobedience to this Scripture? Why are Christian men becoming accomplices to women’s sin by seeking out female pastors and teachers to be their spiritual leaders? I believe there are three reasons:

The fact that there’s even a need for an article like this, never mind that a woman is writing it, is indicative of the pervasiveness of the problem.

1.
Adam 3.0

Give Genesis 3–the story of the Fall–a read through the lenses of 1 Timothy 2:12. See any similarities between what happened in the Garden and what’s happening in the church?

The man is off somewhere, not fulfilling his role of spiritual guardian, leader, and protector, leaving the woman alone and vulnerable to Satan’s attack. Satan tempts the woman to sin and she succumbs. The woman then entices the man to sin, and instead of standing on God’s Word, refusing to sin, and correcting her, he actually joins her in her sin. And when God calls the man to account for this whole scenario, what does the man do? He blames the woman.

Was Eve responsible for her decision to sin? Of course. That’s why we even have 1 Timothy 2:12-14 in the Bible. But God gave the man the authority and God held the man ultimately responsible. That’s why we see passages like Romans 5:12-14 (and others) attributing the sin in the Garden to Adam rather than Eve.

While there are many faithful pastors and Christian men out there diligently laboring to be godly teachers and leaders in the church–and praise God for those men!–there is a large and increasing number of men in our churches, both pastors and laymen, who are failing to fulfill the role God has called men to in the church. Pastors who will only preach what tickles people’s ears. Men who sit in the pews refusing to teach or serve or lead or even attend faithfully.

As it was in the Garden, these Christian men are nowhere to be found as Satan creeps into the church and attacks women with this temptation. And, as God called out then, could He be calling out now, “ืึธื“ึธื, – Adam- Man, where are you“?

As God called out then, could He be calling out now, “ืึธื“ึธื, – Adam- Man, where are you”?

2.
Men are lazy.

I know that sounds harsh, but before all the brothers get their boxers in a bunch, please hear what I’m not saying. I’m not saying that all men are lazy or that women are never lazy or that men are lazy in every aspect of their lives. What I’m saying is that, in this particular instance of women stepping outside God’s role for them in the church, too many men are sitting back with the attitude that, hey, if somebody else is willing to do the work why not let her? Instead, women (not to mention boys and younger men) should be seeing men in the church step up and say, “I’ll study hard so I’ll be equipped to teach that class.” “I’ll preach the sermon, not my wife.” “I’ll be willing to shoulder the load God has given me instead of pushing it off on a woman.”

Women (not to mention boys and younger men) need to see men in the church step up and say, “I’ll be willing to shoulder the load God has given me instead of pushing it off on a woman.”.

3.
Men are afraid of women. 

Not afraid of them physically, but afraid of the ones who will make a scene, cause strife, split churches, get pastors fired, and generally make life hell on earth for anyone who dares to put his foot down firmly on the Word of God and say, “You’re in disobedience. You need to repent and step down.” I know these women (and, of course, there are men who do this, too). I have had plenty of them come after me, and, having a husband who’s been in ministry for over 20 years, I’ve seen plenty of them attack pastors, staff, deacons, etc., and I don’t blame men for feeling scared. But Jesus has called men to defend His Bride from all enemies, both foreign and domestic, and feeling scared doesn’t excuse them from doing what’s right and biblical. Would that godly men would look to the courage Jesus exhibited on His way to the cross. That they would look at Peter, Paul, James, and the other apostles as their example of valor, as these forebears in the faith chose flogging, hardship, jail, and martyrdom over compromising the Word of God.

Would that godly men would look to the courage Jesus exhibited at the cross. That they would look at Peter, Paul, James, and the other apostles who chose flogging, hardship, jail, and martyrdom over compromising the Word of God.

Churches don’t need pastors who are afraid to rock the boat, even if that’s what the church seems to want. Churches need a man who will stand for Christ and His Word, no matter the cost to him personally or vocationally. A pastor can’t call his people to do that in their own lives if he isn’t willing to do it in his, knowing that the God who was strong enough to save him out of the pit of Hell is strong enough to find him another job and provide for his family if it comes to that. We need pastors who are faithful to preach and carry out the Word in season and out of season, trusting Almighty God to have their backs.

Churches don’t need pastors who are afraid to rock the boat, even if that’s what the church seems to want.

God has given women a phenomenal, and much needed, role in the church. He has given men a different, yet equally phenomenal and much needed role in the church. For the local church to function in a healthy way, both men and women have to fill out our own roles correctly. And women can’t and shouldn’t have to do the job of godly men in addition to our own.

Women can’t and shouldn’t have to do the job of godly men in addition to our own.

Some might regard my tone here as stringent. Peter, Paul and the other apostles probably raised some eyebrows when they used a stringent tone, too. But when a house is burning down, the fireman doesn’t tiptoe in, hand you flowers, and politely request that you, pretty please, come with him. And that’s where we are in the church. The house is burning down around us. And, in the end, this article is not meant to be a castigation of pastors or other Christian men, but an impassioned plea from a church lady who wants to see her sisters make it out alive.

Help us. Please. Despite what some professing Christian women might say, we, and the body of Christ, desperately need our brothers to be the heroic men of God that they have the right, the calling, and the responsibility to be.

Women, and the body of Christ, desperately need our brothers to be the heroic men of God that they have the right, the calling, and the responsibility to be.

Complementarianism

Cliffe’s No Good, Very Bad Handling of 1 Timothy 2:12

Michelle Lesley

I had no idea who “Cliffe” in this video is, until I reposted it on X (thanks to Jon Root for the original) with my comments, and followers informed me that this is Cliffe Knechtle, who (along with his son, Stuart) seems to be an open air apologist with a large following on YouTube.

I’m hoping Cliffe just had a no good, very bad day on the day this was recorded and that he goes back, examines the pertinent texts more carefully (and in context), repents, and publicly corrects his errors.

Because, for someone who – I’ve been told – is a respected apologist, this is embarrassingly bad, not to mention, deceptive, even if he didn’t mean it to be.

Let this be an example of how to critically evaluate teaching according to Scripture. And, in case any of your friends and loved ones hold some of these same errant beliefs, here’s how you can help them see the truth of Scripture.

So, ladies, let this be an example to you of how to critically evaluate teaching according to Scripture. And, in case any of your friends and loved ones follow Cliffe or hold some of these same errant beliefs, let me offer a biblical corrective you can use to help them see the truth of Scripture. Open your Bible and follow along with the video. Cliffe’s words below are in bold. (I’ve also interspersed some additional helpful resources.)

“Paul writes that women are not to be pastors.”

No, “God writes…”. Paul penned it, but 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7 is God’s Word. God’s idea, not Paul’s. Paul wrote down what the Holy Spirit breathed out.

Now I’m guessing Cliffe would probably agree with me about that, and I, myself, use that kind of phraseology sometimes, too, but it’s important to remind ourselves – especially with passages of Scripture that broken, sinful human beings have made controversial, like this one – that this is God speaking, not Paul, the sinful human being dreaming this up and imposing it on the church.

“I don’t think that’s a fair translation.”

Then how come every single trustworthy translation of the Bible (and even a lot of the untrustworthy ones) translate it that way? Is Cliffe an expert in the biblical languages and knows better than all the expert Bible translation teams who translated it the way he disagrees with?

Furthermore, although it’s a true summary of what he did write, Paul didn’t write, “Women are not to be pastors.” It’s important to rightly handle and accurately quote the actual text when you’re teaching a biblical concept.

It’s important to rightly handle and accurately quote the actual text when you’re teaching a biblical concept.

“He does write, ‘I do not permit a woman to have authority over a man.'”

No, He (God) writes, “I do not allow a woman to TEACH OR exercise authority over a man…”. Again, it’s important to rightly handle and accurately quote the actual text when you’re teaching a biblical concept.

It’s also important to incorporate the entire body of text that applies to the issue you’re dealing with. In this case, that would be not just 1 Timothy 2:12, but 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7 and Titus 1:5-9. The pastoral qualifications in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 are also crystal clear (“Husband of one wife,” and male pronouns throughout, anyone?) that pastors must be men.

“And yet Paul had a partner in ministry named Priscilla…”

Not in the sense that she was a pastor or taught or exercised authority over men in the gathering of the body, or he would have been the biggest hypocrite in the Bible, because that would have violated God’s breathed out Word – which Paul wrote – in 1 Timothy and Titus. Scripture nowhere characterizes Priscilla as a pastor or any sort of egalitarian “partner in ministry” to Paul that in any way violated clear, New Testament, didactic passages on the role of women in the church.

“…who taught the great preacher Apollos.”

Read the actual passage in Acts 18:24-28. It’s not like she was his seminary professor and she trained him for the pastorate. She and Aquila heard him preach an incomplete gospel and pulled him aside privately and corrected him. Once. Briefly. We have no idea how much of the correcting Priscilla herself did, but even if she did all of it, this does not violate 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7 because that passage prohibits women from pastoring, teaching, and exercising authority over men in the gathering of the Body.

In the Acts 18 passage, Priscilla was not a pastor, nor was she teaching or exercising authority in the gathering of the Body. This was a private meeting, possibly even led by her husband.

There isn’t a woman in Scripture whose actions prove that it’s biblically OK for women to pastor, preach to, or exercise authority over men in the church. Not a single one. Check out:
Oh No, She Di-int! Priscilla Didn’t Preach, Deborah Didn’t Dominate,
and Esthers Wasn’t an Egalitarian.

“So what on earth is he saying when he says, ‘I don’t allow a woman to have authority over a man’? I would argue…that he’s pointing out that in Ephesus… there was a goddess, Diana of the Ephesians, so there was massive confusion about sexual roles…”

Why would you argue that, brother? God plainly tells us His reason for prohibiting women from pastoring, teaching, or exercising authority over men in verse 12. It’s right there in verses 13-14…

For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.

1 Timothy 2:13-14

…and it has nothing to do with Ephesus, Diana, confusion about sexual roles, women abusing their freedom in Christ, or education (which he mentions later in the video). God clearly and unequivocally tells us His reasons for this command: the Creative order and the woman’s deception.

And when you replace God’s reasons in verses 13-14 with any other reason or explanation, you’re calling God a liar. You’re saying His reasons are wrong and yours are right. That you know better than God. That is a very dangerous and blasphemous statement to make.

What then? If some did not believe, does their unbelief abolish the faithfulness of God? May it never be! Rather, let God be true and every man a liar, as it is written,
โ€œThat You may be justified in Your words,
And overcome when You are judged.โ€

Romans 3:3-4

What does 1 Timothy 2:12 actually teach? Check out: Jill in the Pulpit?

“That’s [massive confusion about sexual roles due to the goddess, Diana of the Ephesians,]…” why he says in 1 Corinthians 11 and 14, he says, ‘I don’t allow a woman to teach a man’.”

That’s not what 1 Corinthians 11 and 14 say, that’s what 1 Timothy 2:12 says. First Corinthians 11:1-16 is about male headship and authority. It makes no mention of women teaching men. First Corinthians 14:26-40 is about keeping order in the worship service. It makes no mention of women teaching men.

Furthermore, while God may have, indirectly, been addressing some sort of “confusion about sexual roles” in 1 Corinthians 11 and 14, this sexual confusion had nothing to do with the “goddess, Diana of the Ephesians” because this is in Corinth, not Ephesus.

And again, 1 Timothy 2:12 is the verse that prohibits women from teaching men, and the reason for this prohibition is not “massive confusion about sexual roles due to the goddess, Diana of the Ephesians,” the reason is the Creative order and the woman’s deception, as verses 13-14 clearly tell us.

This kind of confusion and conflation is what happens when you depend on your memory instead of opening the Bible and reading the text, especially if it’s a passage you haven’t dealt with recently. (Trust me. I know. I’ve done it myself.)

“Some very strong Christians, whom I respect highly, disagree with me.”

That’s because what you’re saying is a completely unbiblical mangling of the text. Anyone with third grade reading comprehension skills should disagree with you.

“Paul had partners, who were women, in ministry.”

No he didn’t. Not in the egalitarian sense he’s trying to make these kids believe. (See above about Priscilla.) And if he’s referring to women besides Priscilla, there’s even less information about them in Scripture, so any pronouncement that these other women were pastors or egalitarian “partners” is not only pure conjecture, but also eisegesis of the highest order.

“If God gives a woman gifts, we’re to give women the opportunity to use those gifts.”

Certainly, within the parameters of Scripture. God, the giver of all gifts, has every right to place restrictions on how we may use those gifts. God has never gifted a woman to teach with the intent that she should use that gift to teach men in the church because that contradicts His written Word. If He did that, He would be a liar and a hypocrite and He would cease to be God. There are plenty of ways women can use the gifts of teaching and exhortation without violating God’s commands about the role of women in the church. Ask me how I know.๐Ÿ™‚

My favorite apologetic responses to egalitarians?
The Mailbag: Counter Arguments to Egalitarianism

In fairness, we can’t see most of the audience, but notice that, of the audience members we can see, no one seems to have a Bible in his or her hands in order to be a good Berean and check out what Cliffe is saying against Scripture. And it doesn’t look like anyone is raising a hand to ask him any questions, either. (Hopefully, those things happened after the end of the video.)

Don’t just believe what you’re told. Go to God’s Word, be a good Berean, and check it out. And help your friends and loved ones to do likewise.

Don’t just believe what you’re told. Go to God’s Word, be a good Berean, and check it out. And help your friends and loved ones to do likewise.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Potpourri (Book reviews, statues, and conscience issues… Women giving pro-life talks in church)

Michelle Lesley

Welcome to another โ€œpotpourriโ€ edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question.

I like to take the opportunity in these potpourri editions to let new readers know about my comments/e-mail/messages policy. Iโ€™m not able to respond individually to most e-mails and messages, so here are some helpful hints for getting your questions answered more quickly. Remember, the search bar (at the very bottom of each page) can be a helpful tool!

Or maybe I answered your question already? Check out my article The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs to see if your question has been answered and to get some helpful resources.

I occasionally help launch books by Christian authors. I recently signed on to promote a Christian historical fiction book, and Iโ€™m supposed to write an Amazon review about it. But I am in a dilemma. At the end of the book, one of the characters is miraculously healed from a gunshot wound and claims he heard god tell him that he [“god”] did it for the main character, who doesnโ€™t believe in god. (Notice Iโ€™m not capitalizing “god” because I donโ€™t believe God speaks to us audibly or in dreams.)

When I agreed to promote this book I had no idea this would be in it. Now I am feeling really conflicted. I canโ€™t in good conscience recommend this book but I donโ€™t want to write a negative review on Amazon. Thoughts?

(For readers who may not understand this sister’s dilemma, she is referring to the unbiblical idea of extra-biblical revelation.)

This is a great question, and it’s really awesome that you’re trying to think this through biblically.

What jumps out at me from your comment is that this is bothering your conscience to the point that: a) you’ve used the phrase, “I can’t, in good conscience…” and b) you purposefully didn’t capitalize “God”*. If you think this book is promoting a false god, it’s no wonder it’s bothering your conscience.

* The word “god,” uncapitalized, means “false god” or “idol”.

Romans 14:22b-23 says: Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

and James 4:17 says: So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

You should not sin against your conscience by reviewing and promoting this book as though there’s nothing wrong with it, and I think you would agree that option is off the table.

So what are your other options? I’m not sure exactly how this works, so I’m just throwing out a couple of ideas here:

  • Write an honest review praising the good parts of the book but explaining the biblical problems with the scene you mentioned, and agree to promote the book with that caveat included.
  • Write the aforementioned honest review but don’t promote the book at all.
  • Explain the problems with the scene to the author, tell her you’re willing (if you are) to do either of the above, and let her decide what she wants you to do.
  • Explain the problems to the author and tell her you can’t write a review or promote the book.

Personally, I think one of the first two options would make a greater impact for biblical truth on a larger number of people if you feel you can do it without sinning against your conscience. But you have to decide what’s right for your own walk with the Lord first.

I understand your concern about wanting to keep your word when you agreed to do something, but you have to keep in mind that – whether she realizes it or not – this was an unfair agreement on the author’s part. It’s like buying a car. She sold you a car giving you the impression it worked right and when you got it home you discovered it didn’t have a carburetor or whatever (I don’t know – I’m not good with car stuff). That nullifies your end of the agreement to buy the car.

Use biblical wisdom, pray about it, and don’t sin against your conscience.

In case it might help, here’s a critical review I wrote a while back: Redeeming Love: Rants, Raves, andย Reviews

I have a statue of Joseph and Mary holding baby Jesus. Itโ€™s in a corner year round in my living room. As a former Catholic, Iโ€™m questioning myself if I should even have it at all??

As with the reader above, I think the fact that you’re starting to question this is an indication that it’s bothering your conscience. I would point you to the same Scriptures and counsel you not to sin against your conscience as I counseled the reader in the question above.

Some Christians consider any material representation of Christ to be a violation of the second Commandment. Personally, I don’t believe the context or cross-references of the second Commandment support this view. I’ve explained why, here. However, this is an issue you’ll want to study for yourself and be convinced of, one way or the other, by rightly handled, in context Scripture.

But, assuming there’s no second Commandment issue for you, and you’re not worshiping, venerating, or praying to the statue, or using it as some sort of “aid” to help you worship God – all of which all Christians would agree violate the first two Commandments against idolatry – and it’s just sitting there gathering dust in the corner like an umbrella stand or a fern, this is an issue of conscience.

I would suggest praying about it and discussing it with your husband (if you’re married) and then your pastor. You may also want to prayerfully considerโ€ฆ

Why do I still have the statue?

How do I feel about getting rid of it, and why?

What is the proactively good, biblical reason to keep this statue? (You might want to think of it like this: Would you recommend to your best friend that she buy and display a statue like yours? Why or why not?)

If it bothers your conscience and you can’t think of any good, biblical reason to keep it, get rid of it.

And get an umbrella stand or a fern.

Is it against 1 Timothy 2 for a woman to speak, not teach, during a Sunday morning worship service? She is not speaking as to teach or preach or pastor, but simply speaking on a topic to a congregation of men and women about her experiences as the head of a pregnancy resource center on Sanctity of Life Sunday. You say that this is unbiblical?

If she’s just giving a brief, personal testimony as a small part of the worship service, and the pastor will go on to preach his full sermon later in the service, that’s probably OK. (I’ve addressed women giving personal testimonies during the worship service here, #14.)

If her “testimony” is taking the place of the sermon, yes, it’s unbiblical, but not in the way youโ€™re thinking. Someone giving a talk on an informational topic or her personal experiences that takes the place of the sermon is not so much a 1 Timothy 2:12, โ€œwomen preaching/teaching to menโ€ issue as it is a 2 Timothy 4:1-2 โ€œpastors, preach the Wordโ€ issue.

Personal testimonies, speeches on non-biblical topics, panel discussions, interviews, etc. (from anyone, male or female), should not take the place of the preaching of the Word in the worship gathering. Additionally, due to the ignorance of the world and the majority of professing Christians who fail to distinguish between personal testimonies, TED talks, and preaching, a woman giving a personal testimony that takes the place of the sermon appears to most people as though she is preaching the sermon. Weโ€™re to avoid even the appearance of evil, so thatโ€™s another biblical reason not to do it.

May I make a suggestion? If your church is in need of someone to teach about the wickedness of abortion, contact an abolitionist organization such as Abolitionists Rising or Free the States. Because the abolition movement is church-based, they can put you in touch with a biblically qualified, doctrinally sound man (usually a pastor or elder) to come to your church and preach on the biblical reasons we should fight for the total eradication of abortion. We need to be convicted by Scripture on this issue, not swayed by an emotional response to someone’s subjective personal experiences.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (Iโ€™ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag, Parenting

The Mailbag: Potpourri (Rescinding a recommendation… Women at the Last Supper… Consistent discipline)

Michelle Lesley

Welcome to another โ€œpotpourriโ€ edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question.

I like to take the opportunity in these potpourri editions to let new readers know about my comments/e-mail/messages policy. Iโ€™m not able to respond individually to most e-mails and messages, so here are some helpful hints for getting your questions answered more quickly. Remember, the search bar (at the very bottom of each page) can be a helpful tool!

Or maybe I answered your question already? Check out my article The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs to see if your question has been answered and to get some helpful resources.

Our women’s ministry team recently asked all of us Bible study teachers to promote the study they have chosen, and I personally recommended it to the women in my class. I told them โ€œI donโ€™t know anything about the author and havenโ€™t read the study, but I trust the women’s ministry team and recommend you participate.โ€ That afternoon I began researching her and discovered she was a woman pastor. I immediately contacted the womenโ€™s coordinator and shared my concerns.

I feel TERRIBLE that I have recommended a woman whose life choices make her a stumbling block to the gals I dearly love and have taught for years. My first instinct is to send my students only an email rescinding my recommendation and warning them that the author routinely preaches in her local church. I am torn between protecting them from a very beguiling threat and the implications a warning has for exposing the women’s ministry team. LESSON LEARNED for future recommendations, but for now, what is my Biblical obligation/priority?

That’s a difficult spot to be in. I’ve been there myself, having passed along a recommendation from someone I thought was discerning and trustworthy, only to find out later that she was not.

Here’s what I would suggest:

  • If you haven’t already, get alone with the Lord in prayer and repent of your carelessness. There is grace, mercy, and forgiveness awaiting you.

  • Write out a carefully, kindly, and wisely worded email to your class apologizing for your carelessness and explaining why you need to rescind your recommendation. Support everything you say with Scripture. (If you think it would be helpful, you may wish to include a link to this article of mine.) Don’t hit “send” yet.

  • Talk to your pastor before you do anything else. Explain the situation, plead with him to cancel the study, tell him (don’t ask him) your conscience demands that you send an email to your class rescinding your recommendation of the study, and offer to show it to him if he’d like to see it.

  • I pray your pastor will cancel the study. I really do. That will take the pressure off of you. You will still need to apologize to your class and explain why you agree with the pastor’s decision to cancel the study. Unfortunately, in situations like this, the pastor almost always backs up the study and the women’s director, not the discerning Christian who comes to him with concerns.

  • If your pastor affirms the study and the women’s ministry leader, express your disappointment calmly and politely, and reiterate that you must still send the email. Go to the women’s ministry leader, and as a gesture of courtesy, explain that you’ll be sending an email to your class rescinding your recommendation. Then, send the email.

  • Immediately begin looking for a new, doctrinally sound church. Women who are “pastors” and/or preach to men are false teachers. They preach with their behavior, “I don’t like this command of Scripture, so I’m not going to obey it. If there’s a command of Scripture you don’t like, you don’t have to obey it either.”. If your pastor is so doctrinally ignorant or unsound that he affirms this sin and false teaching, you don’t need to be sitting under his teaching and leadership.

What are the Scripture verses that back up the teachings that women were at the last supper? I know that this is something Iโ€™ve heard before, yet now my grandson is asking me about it because thatโ€™s what he learned in school.

There aren’t any. In fact, I’ve never heard anyone claim that any person – man or woman – other than Jesus and the twelve disciples were in attendance at the Last Supper.

  • The Matthew account says Jesus “reclined at table with the twelve.”
  • The Mark account says Jesus “came with the twelve. And as they were reclining at table and eating…”
  • The Luke account says Jesus “reclined at table, and the apostles with him.”
  • The John account focuses more on Jesus’ teaching at and after the supper than the actual supper itself, but even John says, “During supper” (v.2) Jesus “began to wash the disciples’ feet…” (v.5)

When you consider all four of the gospel accounts together, there is absolutely no argument to be made that anyone was present at the Last Supper besides Jesus and the twelve. There were no women among the twelve. There were no women apostles. Therefore, no women were at the Last Supper.

I’m guessing what happened is that somebody – perhaps Catholicism, in order to elevate Mary, or perhaps feminists, in order to make Jesus seem like an egalitarian – took a mention of “disciples” (without “the twelve” in front of it) from one of these passages and decided that could mean any follower of Jesus he or she wanted it to mean (most likely Mary, the mother of Jesus, or Mary Magdalene).

If your grandson is asking questions like this, take him to Scripture and teach him how to be a good Berean. Show him how to look up the passages in question and compare what he’s being taught to what the Bible actually says.

And if you have a relationship with his parents that allows you to express your concerns about what he’s being taught at school, express them (kindly, yet seriously, taking care not to be overbearing). I shudder to think about all the unbiblical things that school is indoctrinating your grandson with that he’s not asking you about.

I am a Christian mom, and I rarely accept back talk from my son. I always call it out, and usually give him some kind of discipline, but it doesn’t seem to improve things. Is there a secret formula?๐Ÿ˜ƒ

That’s something a lot of moms deal with, and I know it’s got to be frustrating. Good for you for looking for ways to make your discipline more effective!

If what you’re doing isn’t working, your discipline either isn’t severe enough or isn’t consistent enough, or both. Discipline has to hurt in order to be effective.

A good example of the importance of consistency is an experiment I learned about when I was a psychology major back in the Stone Age. We were studying conditioning (training a subject in a behavior), and a lot of the studies we looked at had to do with training rats to push a lever for a pellet of food. Some rats got a pellet every time they pushed the lever. Some never got a pellet. Some got a pellet sometimes. Those were the rats who pushed the lever the most because they never knew when they would be rewarded with food or “punished” with none.

It’s the same with inconsistent discipline. You’re actually increasing the undesired behavior by being inconsistent because your child never knows whether that bad behavior is going to be rewarded, ignored, or punished. This is also part of what Ephesians 6:4 is talking about when it says not to exasperate your children.

Especially with boys, Dad needs to be involved. Your son needs to know that if he doesn’t respond to your discipline, Dad is going to step in and take over. The two of you should sit down, talk this through, and put a plan in place for how to work this out in various situations.

Also helpful would be to find a couple in your church whose children are well behaved and respectful and ask them to disciple you and your husband in this area.

Get those things going, and you’ll see improvement.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (Iโ€™ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag, Southern Baptist/SBC

The Mailbag: Where can I get info on #SBC23?

Michelle Lesley

Will you be attending the Southern Baptist Convention in New Orleans this year? I am interested in any news or updates on the Convention. Do you know where I can get reliable information?

The 2023 annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention will be held June 13-14 at the Morial Convention Center in New Orleans, Louisiana. The actual business and voting will take place Tuesday, the 13th and Wednesday, the 14th. Ancillary events and activities will take place Saturday June 10 – Wednesday, June 14th. (See the Convention website for more details.)

Yes, Lord willing, I am planning to attend, at least the 13th and 14th. I will probably do some pop up “meet and greets” at the convention center for anyone who would like to stop by and say hello. Those were a lot of fun last year, and meeting so many of you was one of the best things about the ’22 Convention. The timing and location of these will be impromptu, and I will announce them only on Twitter, so be sure to follow me to catch those announcements.

Over the past couple of years, I have written detailed articles (like this one, this one, and this one) in anticipation of the annual meeting to keep my readers informed on the issues and events, and to encourage them to vote biblically. Many thanks to those who have contacted me this year to ask about a similar article for 2023, and have kindly mentioned how helpful previous years’ articles were. For a variety of reasons, I’ve decided against writing an article about this year’s Convention. Other than this one, that is. ๐Ÿ™‚

I would recommend following these ministries, organizations, and accounts on Twitter (or wherever you can) for reliable information and a biblical perspective (except Baptist Press) about the latest happenings in the SBC:

I would strongly suggest following these accounts on Twitter rather than another platform because a lot of information comes out in interpersonal conversations rather than just in links to blog posts and such.

One item of business that is unfolding is a proposed amendment to the SBC constitution (not the BFM) that would exclude churches with women “pastors” from being in friendly cooperation with the SBC. This includes women who bear the title of pastor, even if they’re not functioning as pastors (e.g. “Women’s Pastor” “Children’s Pastor”) as well as women who are functioning as pastors even if they don’t bear the title of pastor (e.g. “Worship Leader” “Director of Education and Discipleship”). Churches with women in these positions or bearing these titles would not be allowed to “join” the SBC. If such a church is already a “member” of the SBC, it would be disfellowshipped (excommunicated) from the SBC.

At the moment, it has not been determined whether or not messengers will get to vote on this amendment. There is a letter of support pastors can sign, and you can get much more information at the SBC Amendment website.

The spotlight issue is going to be Rick Warren’s challenge of the Executive Committee’s decision to disfellowship (cut ties with) the “church” he “pastored” for over forty years – Saddleback, in Lake Forest, California. Saddleback currently has husband and wife “co-pastors” at the helm (appointed by Rick Warren prior to his retirement).

Earlier this year, the Executive Committee announced that Saddleback had been disfellowshipped for this reason, causing quite the stir among Southern Baptists in the know. Less than a year ago at the 2022 Convention, the head of the Credentials Committee, which is responsible for assessing whether or not a church seems to be in friendly cooperation with the SBC, proposed that messengers approve a year long study committee so the CC could figure out what a pastor is.

But apparently, they managed to figure it out without the study committee and quickly determined that Saddleback is, indeed, not closely enough aligned with the Baptist Faith and Message (the SBC’s statement of faith) to remain in fellowship with the SBC.

Conspicuously quickly, that is. Some have suggested that this was a strategic move designed to maneuver Rick Warren (or in collusion with him) into challenging the disfellowshipping. If he can successfully convince the messengers (voting attendees) to vote to overturn the decision (and judging from the standing ovation they gave him after his 6 minute, out of order, ode to himself last year, that’s very likely), the four other churches that were disfellowshipped at the same time as Saddleback can push to have their decisions overturned. And, assuming they’re successful, how much time and energy do you think the CC is going to put into any future complaints about other churches with women pastors? (None. That’s how much.) Not long after that, they’ll amend the BFM and remove the part above about women being pastors.

And that’s how the approval of women pastors is going to end up codified into SBC policy. It’s not a stretch. I think the first time I said that the SBC would affirm women “pastors” within five years was last year. Barring a certifiable miracle, I still believe that.

Now, just because that’s going to be the spotlight issue doesn’t mean that’s all you have to worry about. The whole abuse issue (Guidepost, the ARITF, etc.) is going to be another fairly major issue as well. Plus, there are going to be people who are counting on messengers being so distracted by Warrengate and the abuse advocacy grifters that they won’t be paying attention to any other issues. Keep your eyes and ears open, and pay attention. I’d bet my bottom dollar somebody’s going to try to pull a fast one with some sort of unbiblical issue while everybody’s out of the room.

So, if you haven’t already, talk to your pastor about becoming a messenger, get to New Orleans in June and…

  • Read or listen carefully to anything that’s up for a vote, make sure you understand it correctly, and vote according to Scripture.
  • Be in the room for every vote.
  • Vote against anything Rick Warren / Saddleback proposes
  • Vote for Mike Stone for president. (God bless him, he is not only godly but courageous and tenacious to boot.)
  • Support the constitutional amendment to disfellowship churches with women pastors (read it carefully before voting – sometimes items like this are re-worded from the original)
  • Don’t just blindly trust whoever’s at the podium or let them tug at your heartstrings. Listen, engage your brain, and think critically, biblically, and objectively about the issue.

…and prepare yourself to lose, and lose big time. I was prepared to lose every vote last year. And we did. And it still took a spiritual and emotional toll.

And it was worth it. I would do it all over again – which I kinda am, since I’ll be there again this year.

It’s worth it to know that one day I’ll stand before the Lord and say (speaking only for myself and my own conscience) about this moment, “Lord, by Your grace and strength, I didn’t give up. I did my best with what You gave me in order to honor and glorify You.”.

Won’t you join me in June in New Orleans?

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (Iโ€™ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.