Tag: Church

Podcast Appearances

Podcast Guest Appearance – Ordinary People with Extraordinary Lives

Michelle Lesley

I really enjoyed this discussion with my OHCW co-laborer, Arlenys Buckelew. Her podcast, Ordinary People with Extraordinary Lives centers around a really fantastic and encouraging theme: the testimonies of ordinary Christians.

Listen in as Arlenys and I chat about my testimony, growing up in the church, and walking with the Lord over a lifetime. (This episode dropped recently, but we recorded it several months ago, so there are a few things I mentioned that aren’t quite up to date.) You can watch and listen above or listen on Anchor, Apple, or Spotify.

Be sure to visit Arlenys’ website, subscribe to her YouTube channel, and follow her on social media.

Articles / resources mentioned or touched on in the episode:

Open Hearts in a Closed World

Searching for a new church?

Bible Studies

A Word Fitly Spoken

What must I do to be saved?

Got a podcast of your own or have a podcasting friend who needs a guest? Need a speaker for a women’s conference or church event? Click the “Speaking Engagements” tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page, drop me an e-mail, and let’s chat!

Mailbag, Marriage

The Mailbag: My fiance and I don’t agree on theology

Michelle Lesley

Originally published November 27, 2017

After struggling to find a solid local church, I finally found one that’s gospel-centered. I have been fellowshipping there for close to 6 months now and am planning to pursue membership soon. My fiancé is a godly man, but he lives in another town, so he fellowships and serves in a church which he knows has some unbiblical doctrinal issues I won’t compromise on. After our wedding, we plan to live in the town he currently resides in. There are no Bible believing churches around (all are prosperity gospel churches). I am confused because I am not ready to listen to unsound teaching and later bring up my children in a community I don’t agree with theologically.

That’s such a difficult dilemma to be caught in, and I certainly do sympathize. An engagement period should be a joyful time of planning your wedding and your subsequent life together, not agonizing over major disagreements.

That said, it is good that you recognized this problem before the wedding rather than after, and I would strongly encourage you not to move ahead with the marriage unless and until the two of you have come to a biblical agreement on the matter.

Marriage can be challenging even when you agree on all the important stuff. But when you staunchly disagree on what should be the most important issue in your marriage – Christ, His Word, and His church – it can be devastating. Even if you think you are spiritually mature enough to work through the issue and remain committed to your vows, your husband might not be, and could decide he’d rather give up on the marriage than continue to struggle.

There are a couple of Scripture passages I’d encourage you to take a look at as you continue to work through this dilemma:

2 Corinthians 6:14-18: Though verse 14 of this passage clearly says, “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers,” (You said your fiancé was a godly man, so I’m assuming he’s a Believer.) and though the context of this passage is more broadly about the church yoking with unbelievers than it is about marriage, there are still some important applications to your situation.

Get a good picture in your mind of two oxen being yoked together to pull a plow or wagon, because that’s the image the Holy Spirit is giving us in this passage. Even if you’re both oxen (i.e. both Believers) what’s going to happen if you’re pulling one direction and your husband is pulling the other direction? Or if you’re pulling one direction and he digs his hooves in and refuses to budge? To plow rightly, you’ve got to be pulling in the same direction together. What would happen if you yoked a full grown ox with a small calf? Even if you’re pulling the same direction, that yoke is going to rub one or both of you raw, cause blisters, etc. Prayerfully think about the words “yoked,” “partnership,” “fellowship,” “accord,” “share,” and “agreement” in this passage in light of the spiritual differences between you and your fiancé.

Ephesians 5:22-33: Examine what this passage calls you to in your role as a wife: Submit to your husband. Respect your husband. Already you have an issue because when it comes to your husband requiring you to do something ungodly (such as attend and raise your children in a heretical “church”) you, as a Believer, must “obey God rather than men.”

Now examine the role this passage calls your husband to. Is he giving himself up for you as Christ did for the church in order to make sure you grow and flourish in sound doctrine in your relationship with the Lord? (v. 25-27) Is he nourishing and cherishing your sanctification? Is he loving you as his own flesh?

In addition to praying and studying the Scriptures, it would be very helpful to make an appointment with your pastor (not his) for pre-marital counseling. He can lead the two of you to talk through the issue and determine whether or not you can resolve it in a biblical way. Your fiancé’s responses should give you a clearer picture of what to do, and if he refuses pastoral counseling, that should also be an indicator about which direction your relationship should go.

Husbands and wives do not have to agree verbatim – although it’s wonderful if they do – on every teensy tinsy molecule of doctrine or the marriage is doomed. (My husband and I have a few minor theological disagreements, but we’re in agreement about 98% of the time, and certainly on all the most important tenets of doctrine.) But heresy versus sound doctrine is not a teensy tinsy molecule of doctrine. It is a major issue that will harmfully impact your marriage and your children – in more ways than you can now imagine – for the rest of your lives. I would strongly encourage you to put the wedding on hold until this issue is resolved in a biblical way. Your love for and loyalty to Christ must take precedence over your love for and loyalty to any man:

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.”
Luke 14:26

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” 
Matthew 10:34-37

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Church, Discernment

Throwback Thursday ~ Nine Reasons Discerning Women Are Leaving Your Church

Michelle Lesley

Originally published July 24, 2015

Earlier this week, Thom Rainer, president and CEO of LifeWay, pubished a blog article entitled Six Reasons Why Women May Be Leaving Your Church. Although I am not particularly a fan of Dr. Rainer (due to his allowing materials from false teachers to be sold at LifeWay), I thought this article was a good one, and I agreed with several of the issues he raised, especially, that these issues need to be addressed by church leadership.

As a ministry wife and someone in the field of women’s ministry myself, I, too, have noticed women leaving the church. Not just women in general, but a certain subset of church-attending ladies: discerning women. While Scripture is pretty clear that we can expect women (and men) who are false converts to eventually fall away from the gathering of believers, why are godly, genuinely regenerated women who love Christ, His word, and His church, leaving their local churches?

While Scripture is pretty clear that we can expect false converts to eventually fall away, why are godly, genuinely regenerated women who love Christ, His word, and His church, leaving their local churches?

1.
Eisegetical or otherwise unbiblical preaching

Discerning women don’t want to hear pastors twist God’s word. The Bible is not about us, our problems, and making all our hopes and dreams come true. We don’t want to hear seeker-driven or Word of Faith false doctrine. We don’t need self-improvement motivational speeches or a list of life tips to follow. We want to hear a pastor rightly handle God’s word from a trustworthy translation and simply exegete the text.

2.
The worship hour has become a variety show

Skits, guest stars, movie clips, dance routines, rock concerts, elaborate sets, light shows, and smoke machines. We didn’t sign on for Saturday Night Live on Sunday. This is supposed to be church. Get rid of all that junk, turn the lights on, give us solid preaching, prayer, and some theologically sound songs we can actually sing, and maybe we’ll stick around.

We didn’t sign on for Saturday Night Live on Sunday. This is supposed to be church.

3.
Women in improper places of church leadership

The Bible could not be more clear that women are not to be pastors, instruct men in the Scriptures, or hold authority over men in other capacities in the church. If your church has a female pastor, worship leader, or elders, or if women are teaching and leading men in Sunday school, small groups, or from the platform in the worship service, or if women are heading up certain committees, departments, or ministries which place them in improper authority over men, you’re disobeying Scripture, and we don’t want to help you do that by attending your church.

4.
Children are being entertained, not trained

There’s nothing wrong with a bit of play time or crafts for younger children, but we want our children trained in the Scriptures, not entertained for a couple of hours. We want their teachers to open God’s word and read and explain it to them at a level they can understand. We want them memorizing verses, learning to pray, and demonstrating an age-appropriate comprehension of the gospel. We want them to understand that church is joyful, yet, serious, not a Jesus-laced party at Chuck E. Cheese. We need church to bolster the Scriptural training we’re giving our kids at home.

5.
Women’s “Bible” Studies

The majority (and I don’t use that term flippantly) of churches holding women’s Bible studies are using materials written by Beth Moore, Priscilla Shirer, Joyce Meyer, Lysa TerKeurst, Sarah Young, and others who teach unbiblical ideas and false doctrine. Not minor denominational differences of opinion. Not secondary and tertiary unimportant issues that can be overlooked. False doctrine. While we long to study God’s Word with other women, discerning women will not sacrifice sound doctrine nor the integrity of Scripture to do so.

While we long to study God’s Word with other women, discerning women will not sacrifice sound doctrine nor the integrity of Scripture to do so.

6.
Ecumenism

Is your church partnering with other “churches” whose orthodoxy and/or orthopraxy are at odds with Scripture? “Churches” which approve of homosexuality or female pastors, or which hold to an unbiblical soteriology (grace plus works, baptismal regeneration, Mary as co-redemptrix with Christ, etc.)? Are you partnering with those who deny the biblical Christ altogether such as Muslims, Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hindus, Mormons, or Buddhists? Discerning women know Scripture forbids yoking ourselves to unbelievers and we want no part of it.

7.
Ageism

Look around at your pastor and staff, your lay leadership, your music team, the “face” of your church. How many of those people are over 40? Usually, discernment and spiritual maturity come through walking with the Lord over many years, yet, increasingly, by design, churches are run by twentysomething pastors, staff, and other leadership, who are often spiritually immature and/or lack the wisdom and life experience that come with age. The staff is often specifically structured this way in order to attract young people to the church. The counsel and wisdom mature, godly men and women have to offer is brushed off as old fashioned, and middle aged and older church members feel alienated and unwanted. While there are those among the twentysomething set who are godly and growing into maturity, discerning women value the wisdom and teaching of their godly elders.

8.
The “troublemaker” label

Discerning women who see unbiblical things happening in their churches and stand up for what God’s Word says about biblical ecclesiology and teaching are often vilified and labeled as troublemakers. We are called haters, threats to unity, complainers, gossips, negative, and a myriad of other scornful names. All this for wanting things done according to Scripture. Can you blame us for shaking the dust off our high heels and leaving?

Discerning women are often vilified and labeled as troublemakers. Can you blame us for shaking the dust off our high heels and leaving?

9.
Spineless or stiff-necked pastors

Discerning women have little respect for, and find themselves unable to submit to the authority of pastors who see people in their churches acting overtly sinful or propagating false teaching yet are so afraid of confrontation that they will not set things right. By the same token, we cannot continue to attend a church in which we bring scriptural evidence of false teaching or sin to the pastor and he outright denies the biblical truth we present to him. We cannot be members of churches in which pastors will not submit to Scripture or carry out biblical mandates.

Frequently, the discerning women you see tearfully leaving your church have been there for years. Sometimes they leave your church because it was never doctrinally sound to begin with, and God has opened their eyes to this as they grow and mature in Christ. Sometimes they leave because false doctrine and unbiblical practices have crept in and taken over a church that was once a refuge of trustworthy biblical teaching. Either way, these things should not be.

Maybe it’s not that discerning women are leaving the church, but that the church is leaving them.

Maybe it’s not that discerning women are leaving the church, but that the church is leaving them.

Additional Resources

Rock Your Role articles

Searching for a new church?

Podcast Appearances

Podcast Guest Appearance – Bibledingers

Michelle Lesley
Don’t worry, this episode was not about complementing Arians! :0)

It was so great to sit down and chat with my new friends Ryan and Nick over at Bibledingers recently!

We talked about all things complementarian – the biblical foundation for the complementarian position, the Scriptures egalitarians twist to try to justify their position, godly women in the Bible, and the crucial roles women play in the church and the home. The guys even had some great words of wisdom for all you husbands out there!

Listen in here or check out episode 78 of Bibledingers on your favorite podcast platform!

Be sure to visit the Bibledingers website for blog articles, videos, gear, and all the Bibledingers’ social media links. Subscribe and follow!

Articles / resources mentioned or touched on in the episode:

Rock Your Role: All Things Being Equal

Rock Your Role article series

The Mailbag: Counter Arguments to Egalitarianism

Got a podcast of your own or have a podcasting friend who needs a guest? Need a speaker for a women’s conference or church event? Click the “Speaking Engagements” tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page, drop me an e-mail, and let’s chat!

Guest Posts

Guest Post: Ministering to the Sick: More than a Checklist

Michelle Lesley

If your theology pretty much matches up with mine (as outlined in my “Welcome” and “Statement of Faith” tabs in the blue menu bar at the top of this page) and you’d like to contribute a guest post, drop me an e-mail, and let’s chat about it.

Note from Michelle: (Update: 2024) At the time Melissa wrote this article for my blog, her theology was doctrinally sound. Unfortunately, since that time, she has has adopted some unbiblical beliefs which I cannot endorse. However, because this article is practical advice, rather than biblical/theological in nature, I have chosen to leave it up on the blog. I hope it will help you as you minister to family, friends, and church members.

Ministering to the Sick: More than a Checklist
by: Melissa Morris

Someone gets sick. Someone has surgery. Someone is going through cancer treatments. Until ten years ago when I had my own life threatening/life changing illness, I was guilty (unintentionally) of treating these opportunities as a checklist to be done and not really considering the person. Make a meal, give them a call, drop them off at the doctor – I mean, what’s wrong with that? People should be thankful that we care enough to be involved, right?

As the body of Christ, we have a huge responsibility to help out when illnesses occur. In the midst of all of the chaos, there is a person who has had his or her world turned upside down by a diagnosis or a surgery. People are individuals and so are diagnoses and treatment plans. There’s not only the physical side of sickness, there are also the emotional, mental and spiritual aspects to consider. It shouldn’t be a “fill in the blank” approach, it should be based on the individual.

Instead of treating our ministry as “one size fits all”, what are some things we need to consider to effectively and practically minister to someone experiencing an illness?

Cancer treatments and doctor’s appointments

It’s more than giving someone a ride.

When my mom found out she had cancer, we needed help getting her to and from the cancer center. We live 45 minutes from the hospital where she would be receiving  her treatments. She had radiation treatments five days a week for six weeks. 

We had several people volunteer to take her, and it soon became evident that not everyone fully comprehends that it’s more than a ride.

When providing cancer patients with a ride to treatments, it’s important to understand several things. They are weak, before and after the treatments. Whatever the extent of the disease they are fighting, it is wreaking havoc on their bodies. They may be experiencing pain, nausea, vomiting, bathroom issues, and more. Therefore, they may need physical assistance walking, going to the bathroom, carrying their things and staying hydrated. When you offer to give someone a ride to treatments and you are the only one with them, they are expecting some things from you. Please understand that it’s more than dropping them off at the door of the hospital, coming back to pick them up, and dropping them off at the door when you get them home, especially if you are leaving them alone.

What can you do?

  • Remember that it’s not about you. You may be tempted to take the opportunity, especially if you are making a long trip, to do some shopping or errands while you wait. While this is not entirely wrong, there are some things you need to consider.
  • Walk with them to the office where they are receiving their treatments. Make sure they don’t need a wheelchair or some sort of assistive device to get them there. 
  • Check with them and see if they would be more comfortable if you waited for them in the waiting room before you go off to run errands. Sometimes it makes a patient feel better if they know someone is close by. The staff there might also need you to be available if there is an emergency or the patient needs something.
  • If you do leave the patient, make sure you arrive back in a timely manner so that they don’t have to wait for you when they are done. 
  • When you arrive back at their home, make sure they get inside safely and have everything they need before you leave them. Help them get comfortable, get something to eat or drink, go to the bathroom, etc. It might be awhile before someone gets home to be with them.
  • Don’t plan anything else that day – there will be times when the person receiving the treatments might need extra care. For example, there were times when my mom went for radiation and she was dehydrated. This required her to go to the medication oncology lab and receive fluids before they would send her home. This could take a couple of hours.

Taking Food/Other Items

I live in the South, and I’m a Baptist. We treat any and every illness with food. There’s a special joy in preparing someone a dish and delivering it to them. There’s also the comfort you feel in receiving a meal from someone and you know that they prepared it with love. You sure don’t feel like cooking when you’re going through an illness. 

It seems like an easy thing to do, but when I experienced surgery and a colostomy, my diet completely changed. We received so many wonderful, heartfelt meals, but to my dismay, there were many things that I wasn’t allowed to eat anymore. Some people come home with a new diagnosis of diabetes. Some have food allergies. Cancer patients might be experiencing nausea and vomiting/diarrhea. So, what can we do to make our meal ministry more effective?

  • I know we like the element of surprise, but to make it easier on everyone, it would be best to call and ask if the person has any dietary restrictions. It doesn’t do much good to take someone a meal they can’t eat, no matter how good it might taste.
  • If they can’t have certain things, consider taking prepackaged food items that they can easily put together themselves, but still ask for preferences and restrictions. Some examples:

    Crackers

    Canned meat/soups/fruits/vegetables (I know that fresh fruits and vegetables are ideal, however, when someone is recovering from an illness, they may not feel like eating a lot at one time. The fresh food might spoil before they can eat it.  Prepackaged and canned allows for the person to use the food when it benefits them).

    Sandwich meats and bread

    If you live in an area that provides meal delivery from restaurants, offer to pay for their orders for a specified amount of time.

    Offer to grocery shop for them and help put items away when you deliver the groceries.

    Offer to prepare and refrigerate simple items that can be microwaved or warmed up easily.

There are other items that might be needed that we might not think about. 

  • Cleaning supplies.
  • Toilet paper, napkins, paper towels.
  • Hygiene items (deodorant, soap, feminine products, etc.)
  • Medications (over the counter and prescription)

They also might need you to run errands for them, to the post office or to pick up prescriptions. Whatever the need may be, communicate with the person so that your efforts can be beneficial to them.

Visits

I love to talk. In fact, after I had major surgery, the nurses told my mom that I would sleep all night from the anesthesia. I woke up at midnight and talked all night long!

But as much as I love to talk, when I was recovering, I wanted to rest. I had been in the hospital for ten days, not knowing if I was going to make it back home or not. I was discharged home with IV antibiotics around the clock for seven more days. I had nurses coming in daily for wound care and colostomy training. I didn’t get much sleep in the hospital, and, for a while, I wasn’t getting much sleep at home.

Before visiting, call the person and see what a good time might be to show up. As I was talking with Michelle about this article, we discussed that the old theory is to “just show up”. I had people show up to see me that I would have enjoyed visiting with, but I was either sleeping or having a visit from the nurse. If the person recovering has a caregiver, that caregiver might be taking an opportunity to rest while the patient is resting. 

What do I say? (or NOT say)

Some people said some crazy things to me and to my mom while we were dealing with recovery/cancer treatments.

  • My mom had a pastor who she thought a lot of visit her the day after she found out her initial diagnosis but before we found out the extent of the disease process. He seemed in a bad mood when he got there, preoccupied and distracted. My mom shared with him that she wasn’t afraid, that she had lived 67 years (at the time) and if the diagnosis was not good, she’d had a wonderful life and she was ready to meet Jesus. He looked up at her and rudely said, “Well, you might only have 67 more days, have you ever thought about that?”
  • A friend of my mom’s from church came to see her and pray with her. As they talked, this “friend” said, “Well, Pat, you know you have this cancer because you have sin in your life.”.
  • I woke up extremely depressed one day, so I actually reached out to someone I thought was a close friend via text and said I needed someone to talk to. Five days later, I got a text back that said, “Hope you found someone to talk to.”.

Don’t be that person – if you’re in a bad mood, visit another day, and as I was taught, if you can’t say something nice (or encouraging), don’t say anything at all. When I worked in healthcare, we were taught to leave our personal lives outside the door when we came to work, because they would be there for us to pick up when we went home. 

What else?

I never realized until I became disabled how many things there are around the house that need to be done.

  • Cleaning
  • Laundry
  • Yard work/mowing
  • Errands
  • Taking care of the kids

There might be adaptations that need to be made to the home, or adaptive equipment put in place (grab bars, a handicap toilet, etc.)

The person might need help with bathing and dressing for a while, and this might not be something insurance covers. I needed daily wound care and my insurance only covered three days a week. I was blessed to have nurses in my life that covered the other four days. If you are a nurse or a C.N.A., you could offer your time and services. Even if you’re not, you can be trained in some instances to help with certain medical issues.

One of the biggest issues many deal with is the financial strain not working can put on a person. If the illness ends up being a permanent disability, it can take years (it took 3½ for me) to receive benefits through Social Security. I would hate to think where I would have been had the Lord not given me a wonderful mother and a few anonymous donors to make it through. Even with those things, I had to sell my car, and some of my instruments and sound equipment just to get medication and colostomy supplies. People may also need help filling out applications for assistance, disability, or in-home services. 

Some of the things from our previous lists can carry over if the illness becomes a permanent disability.

Whatever the situation, keep this one thing in mind: be available. If you can’t meet the need of the person, help seek out someone who can.

It is my prayer that this will assist you in more effectively serving those in your community.  And remember, somebody can’t do everything, but everybody can do something.

Melissa is a retired long term care/hospice social worker/bereavement counselor. Compelled to give up her career due to illness, she now spends her time raising her two cousins, singing and writing songs, and traveling to different churches and organizations sharing music and laughter.