Sound Doctrine – Page 31 – Michelle Lesley

I don’t know the brother who said it, but I saw a remark the other day from a Presbyterian gentleman who said something to the effect of, “It’s time for all doctrinally sound Southern Baptists to leave the SBC.”

I get that.

When you have an organization as large, open, and widespread as the Southern Baptist Convention, problems – even major ones – are inevitable. At this point, there are many things the SBC is still getting right, biblically speaking…

There are many good and praiseworthy things going on in SBC life. We have hundreds of doctrinally sound pastors faithfully preaching the gospel week in and week out. Discernment and biblical literacy among Southern Baptist church members is slowly but steadily growing. The SBC takes a public, biblical stand on abortion and homosexuality while many other denominations do not. Our organizational structure for funding and sending out missionaries, while sometimes flawed in its execution, is without peer. Southern Baptist Disaster Relief is one of the finest relief organizations in the world. And there’s so much more. Find a godly Kingdom effort going on somewhere, and you’ll probably find a Southern Baptist involved in it. By the grace of God, while we’re far from perfect, we’re getting a lot of things right.¹

…But for some individual Southern Baptists and Southern Baptist churches, the biblical error and other problems pervading the SBC have become too much to bear, and they have deemed it time to walk away from what they see as a system damaged beyond repair, seeking refuge in ARBCA, Bible, Independent, or non-denominational churches and networks instead.

Like I said, I get that, and I don’t blame them one little bit. Believe me, I’ve had leaving on my mind more than once. And if the SBC continues its downward spiral, it’s an inevitability for nearly all of us who hold to sound doctrine.

But there are still plenty of us crazy, “glass half full” doctrinally sound optimists out there who, like Luther, don’t want to abandon the SBC to the rubbish heap if it can be avoided, but would rather see it reformed (little “r”), renewed, and restored to the glory of God.

If you’ve ever labored through the entirety of the Old Testament (and if you haven’t, stop denying yourself that blessing, and study it), you know that God exercised patience with Israel through centuries of idolatry, rebellion, and paganism of the vilest sorts, sending them prophet after prophet, warning after warning, discipline after discipline, lovingly calling, urging, and commanding them to repent and be reconciled to Him before finally executing judgment on them.

I’m just not sure we’re quite at the point of exiling the SBC… yet. I think maybe these are the days of Elijah. And Jeremiah. And Isaiah. And even Luther. A time for godly Southern Baptist men and women to stand firmly on the written Word of God and speak prophetically, chapter and verse, into their beloved churches and denomination, “Thus saith the Lord.”

And in that same spirit of the prophets of old, we don’t speak from a position of “I’m right and I’m here to prove it,” or because we’re haters, or because we’re power-hungry. It’s because we’re cut to the heart over the sin and idolatry we see among our brothers and sisters. We’re grieved that those things dishonor our precious Savior and bring His judgment and discipline upon those who participate in and propagate them. We deeply desire that our denomination and our churches experience the joy that comes with being spiritually healthy and biblically submitted to Christ.

So, while there are probably at least ninety-five theses that could be nailed to the doors of the Executive Committee in Nashville, here are three that would be a good start.

1.
The Authority and Sufficiency of Scripture

Nearly forty years ago, Southern Baptist movers and shakers in the conservative resurgence went to war for the inerrancy of Scripture. It was a long, hard battle, but they won. Now it’s time to fight for the authority and sufficiency of Scripture in the SBC.

The Bible is our authority as Christians, not the ideas, opinions, and traditions of denominational leaders, SBC celebrities, pastors, or any other person. The Bible. If the Bible commands us to do something, we do it. If the Bible commands us not to do something, we don’t do it. We don’t formulate our own programs and methods and try to squish the Bible in to make it fit. We start with the Bible. We stay with the Bible. We end with the Bible.

Because the SBC does not always submit to the authority of the Bible, we have leaders, celebrities, and pastors looking to, and promoting, sources outside the Bible for direction instead of simply trusting and obeying God’s written Word. We have influential “Bible” teachers who stand on stages in front of thousands and dare to proclaim, “God told me…”, functionally denying the sufficiency of Scripture by relying on supposed extra-biblical revelation (and teaching their followers to do the same). We have pastors and denominational leaders who look to polls and surveys to decide how to conduct their worship services or which social issues need to be addressed and how to address them. We have church growth gurus teaching our pastors to adopt all manner of worldliness that “works” to get sinners in the doors of their churches.

If the Southern Baptist Convention is to survive as an entity of biblical Christianity, the authority and sufficiency of Scripture is the number one issue that must be dealt with. If this issue is properly addressed and corrected, it will alleviate or minimize nearly all other problems facing the SBC. We must submit to God’s written Word and give Scripture its proper place – first place – in our denomination, our individual churches, and our personal lives.

Basic Training: The Bible Is Our Authority

Basic Training: The Bible Is Sufficient

2.
False Doctrine and False Teachers

If the SBC truly regarded the Bible as authoritative and sufficient, the cancer of false doctrine and false teachers that is slowly killing us would be cured or in remission. Indeed, the aforementioned false teaching of extra-biblical (God told me, showed me in a dream, spoke to me, etc.) revelation is probably the most pervasive false doctrine accepted among Southern Baptists.

When Hilkiah found the Book of the Law in the temple (Imagine a house of God in such a shambles of idolatry that people had to dig and search for the actual Scriptures. Selah.), and Shaphan read it to Josiah, Josiah tore his clothes in grief and began to set God’s house and God’s people in order. After covenanting together with the people to obey God’s Word, the very first thing Josiah did was to have the altars and vessels of false gods carried out of God’s house and destroyed. If the SBC would follow in Josiah’s footsteps we would see things like:

LifeWay would immediately remove and destroy any and all materials by Beth Moore, Andy Stanley, Priscilla Shirer, TD Jakes, Lysa TerKeurst, Sarah Young, Christine Caine, Bethel Music, Jesus Culture, Hillsong, and all other false teachers and promulgators of false doctrine.

There would be no more conferences, simulcasts, or leadership training seminars featuring false teachers, and false teachers would certainly not be invited to speak in any capacity at the annual Southern Baptist Convention.

Pastors, authors, and speakers who attempted to build a career inside the SBC by teaching false doctrine would be subject to church discipline for their sin, not turned into celebrities or appointed or elected to denominational leadership positions.

Messenger voting privileges at the Convention would be revoked for churches which habitually and unrepentantly welcome false teachers.

If the Bible were to become our sufficient authority for both orthodoxy and orthopraxy, our eyes would quickly be opened to the enormity of the hold false doctrine has on our denomination, churches, and individuals, and we would act accordingly and biblically.

A Naked Emperor in the Southern Baptist Convention

10 Things I Wish Southern Baptists Knew About Southern Baptists

The Peterson Predicament and LifeWay’s Peculiar Policies

3.
Disfellowshipping Errant Churches

Earlier this week, the Southern Baptist Convention severed ties with the District of Columbia Baptist Convention (DCBC- an association of Southern Baptist churches in the Washington, D.C. area) for refusing to disfellowship one of its member churches, Calvary Baptist, which had called a legally “married” lesbian couple to serve as its co-“pastors” over a year ago.

It was absolutely the right thing to do (the SBC has disfellowshipped several churches that embrace homosexuality), and I’m glad that this standard remains in tact, but…lesbian co-pastors…? That’s how bad it has to get before the SBC can, or will, act to remove a church? What about churches that are embracing sins other than homosexuality?

There are plenty of apostate Southern Baptist churches, and we have no mechanism in place for kicking them out of the SBC.

This is a verbatim quote from the FAQ section (5th question from the top) of the SBC’s web site:

“According to our constitution, if a church no longer makes a bona fide contribution to the Convention’s work, or if it acts to ‘affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior,’ it no longer complies with the Constitution of the Southern Baptist Convention and is not permitted to send messengers to the annual meeting. These, however, are the only explicitly stated instances in which the SBC has the prerogative to take action.”

What does that mean? As long as your church doesn’t affirm homosexuality and gives to the Cooperative Program, you’re in. Never mind if your pastor twists God’s word until it’s unrecognizable. Or lets women and false teachers get behind the pulpit like Steven Furtick does. Or plays AC/DC’s “Highway to Hell” on Easter Sunday and says he probably wouldn’t have strippers on stage like Perry Noble does. Or any of the other ridiculous and blasphemous shenanigans so many of the seeker sensitive types in our denomination pull. Nope, as long as you give your money and stand on the right side of homosexuality, you’re good to go.² ³

I’ll be the first to admit, it would be a difficult standard to set and implement, but look at the standards the New Testament required of churches. We’ve got to set the bar higher than a homosexuality litmus test and an offering for a church to be in good standing with the SBC. Doctrine and practices simply have to be a factor.

Can there be another conservative resurgence that brings reform to the SBC? I believe there can.

The Bible says “nothing will be impossible with God.” I believe that. I believe that the God who spoke the universe into existence from nothing, who opened sealed tombs and barren wombs, who parted seas and walked on water and turned water into wine can change the hearts of Southern Baptists and the trajectory of the Southern Baptist Convention.

By His grace. For His glory. For our good.

¹A Naked Emperor in the Southern Baptist Convention
²10 Things I Wish Southern Baptists Knew About Southern Baptists
³As of 2019, this verbiage has been removed from the FAQ section of the SBC website. Conceptually similar language can be found here (see Article III: Composition).

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Potpourri (Spanking, Women teaching men, Working a homosexual “wedding”…)

May 14, 2018May 24, 2019 Michelle Lesley

Welcome to another “potpourri” edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question. I also like to take the opportunity in these potpourri editions to let new readers know about my comments/e-mail/messages policy. I’m not able to respond individually to most e-mails and messages, so here are some helpful hints for getting your questions answered more quickly. Remember, the search bar can be a helpful tool!

Can you share some Scripture with us that supports the idea that spanking is not abuse? I am genuinely curious as I have a young toddler of my own and go back and forth between the idea of spanking or not spanking.

The first way we know that a loving, properly administered spanking by godly parents is not abuse is that God would not tell us to do it if it were. The God who does not even want us abusing animals (see passages like Proverbs 12:10, Exodus 23:5, Deuteronomy 25:4) would certainly never tell us to abuse our children.

To equate proper spanking with abuse or to pejoratively call spanking “hitting” is a worldly idea, not a biblical one. The world’s (Satan’s) agenda is to get people to believe that spanking is abuse so that they will stop doing it. Since spanking began falling out of favor several decades ago, the cumulative result has been a greater number of children sinning with impunity and not being brought up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord, which is exactly what Satan wants. (Yes, I understand that is a general statement. There are always exceptions, but exceptions don’t negate the rule.) Christians parents might choose not to spank, but they may not biblically accuse others of abuse who choose to spank.

Beyond that, let me direct you to some resources that not only give you the Scriptures but give instruction in those Scriptures as well:

What the Bible Teaches About Spanking by Denny Burk (there are several additional resources linked in this article)

Capitol Hill Baptist Church Core Seminars: Parenthood Class 7- The Rod of Correction

Parenting in an Anti-Spanking Culture by John MacArthur

Shepherding a Child’s Heart by Tedd Tripp

How should Christians discipline their children? What does the Bible say? at Got Questions

We occasionally have guest speakers at our Wednesday church services that worry me. Charlotte Gambill [co-lead “pastor” of LIFE “Church”] for instance. I am a firm believer that women should not be teachers of Scripture to men, but I guess my question is this, should I leave my church because this is allowed in these Wednesday evening gatherings?

Well…I mean, I don’t mean this to sound facetious or anything, but sin is sin no matter what time of day or day of the week it takes place on. While there are certain circumstances in which it might be biblically appropriate for a woman to address a mixed gathering of Believers, preaching and teaching Scripture during a worship service is not one of them. And certainly no church or other Christian organization should be affirming a female “pastor” in her sin by inviting her to be a guest speaker for any sort of event.

I would not just quietly slip out the door, though. Set up an appointment to discuss the matter with your pastor. (You might want to use the principles and suggestions in my article How should I approach my church leaders about a false teacher they’re introducing? as a guide.) His response about the matter will probably tell you everything you need to know about whether or not you should begin looking for a new church.

Do you have a page on your website on how you verbally share the gospel with others?

I don’t recall ever having written an article on my approach in witnessing, but here’s what I would recommend.

1. Listen to Todd Friel’s Witness Wednesday every week on Wretched Radio. Todd is very good at opening up conversations with random strangers and quickly transitioning to a gospel presentation. (You might also want to order the resource Terrified.)

2. Watch the witnessing encounters in Ray Comfort’s Living Waters University YouTube videos. Ray has a standard (nearly the same, verbatim, every time) way of presenting the gospel and makes it look so easy!

These are the guys I attempt to emulate when witnessing as I trip all over my tongue and stammer around. You would do much better to follow their example than to follow mine.

If a Christian has a job as a banquet server doing weddings and one day there’s a gay wedding and the person is scheduled to work, would that be sinful to work and serve guests at the gay wedding? Would you say this is just like a Christian baking a cake for a gay wedding or is it different?

I think this is different. A business owner has the freedom to choose which jobs and clients he will accept and which he will not (at least, in America, he is supposed to have this freedom). An employee does not have any say so in which clients the business will and won’t serve. So, the employer is serving the client, but the employee is serving the employer.

If you feel uncomfortable working at homosexual “weddings,” try talking to your boss about it. Maybe you could volunteer to work a different shift, or in a different position in the business that would not require you to work at weddings. If your conscience bothers you a great deal about it, that’s totally understandable, and you might want to begin looking for a new job. Set up an appointment with your pastor for biblical counsel on this situation if it’s a decision that’s really weighing on you.

Basic Training: Homosexuality, Gender Identity, and Other Sexual Immorality

Should Christians Attend Homosexual “Weddings”?

I know women should not be pastors, but is it OK for women to teach men Scripture outside of church?

It depends on what you mean by “teach Scripture” and “church”. If you’re asking about sharing the gospel with someone, that’s not teaching Scripture to men in the church, it’s evangelizing those outside the church, and that’s fine. If you’re talking about teaching a Bible study to a mixed group in someone’s home, we need to remember that the church is not a building, it’s Believers, and that the churches in existence when 1 Timothy 2:12 was written were meeting in homes. So, that would be a “no.”

I think my article Rock Your Role FAQs might be helpful as you explore this more.

What do you think about _____ teacher, author, or ministry? Is he/she/it doctrinally sound?

I’m so sorry I don’t have the time to research all the teachers and ministries I’m asked about. If you’re trying to find out whether or not you should be following a certain person or organization, I encourage you to do the research and find out. Here are the steps I take when researching someone:

Is She a False Teacher? 7 Steps to Figuring it Out on Your Own

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Discernment

Discernment: A Spiritual Battle, Not a Logical One

May 11, 2018March 14, 2023 Michelle Lesley

The way people think, the way we react to environmental stimuli, the way we relate to one another, the way our backgrounds and experiences shape the way we view and interact with the world absolutely fascinates me. It’s probably what led me to pursue degrees in psychology and counseling as well as every sociology, anthropology, criminology, and every other social science -ology elective I could get my hands on when I was in college. What makes people tick? Why does the human mind perceive things the way it does? Why is it that two people can witness the exact same event and come away with two completely different interpretations of it?

Those human-centered constructs and sciences can be helpful when it comes to studying observable behavior, but that’s exactly where their helpfulness ends – at the line of observable human behavior. Statistical psychology can perform a longitudinal study on people who were abused as children and show us that those people are much more likely to become abusers themselves. But, try as they might, none of those -ologies can accurately explain why they don’t all turn out to be abusers, or why some become abusers and then, for no earthly reason, suddenly stop and are seemingly magically transformed into healthy parents or spouses.

It’s because all of the -ologies lack a major operating component in their schemata – the spiritual realm. They’re like a football team with an adequate defensive team but no offensive team. You can’t play the game of football that way, and you can’t begin to understand people without acknowledging and understanding the spiritual.

Humans are more than just brains transported around by a bag of bones and muscles. People have spirits, and there are only two kinds: a spirit that has been redeemed by the blood of Christ, or a spirit that is in rebellion against Christ. And even among those who have been redeemed, there’s a broad spectrum of maturity, both overall and in specific areas of sanctification. You can generalize someone as a “baby Christian” or a “mature Christian”, but even among mature Christians, you’ll find that Christian A isn’t as mature in trusting God as Christian B, that Christian B isn’t as mature in generosity as Christian C, that Christian C isn’t as mature in patience as Christian D, and so on.

People are wonderfully and weirdly spiritually complex and unique.

People are wonderfully and weirdly spiritually complex and unique.
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As Christians, I think most of us realize all of this on some level. We know that the Bible says that when we’re born again, we become completely new creatures in Christ. Out with the old man, in with the new. It’s a redeemed spirit that causes us to do things – in varying levels of maturity – like: love Christ, hate our sin, enjoy worship, and weep over the lost. Conversely, not having a redeemed spirit will cause those things to be absent in someone’s life. The words, attitudes, and behaviors we see on the outside are driven by what’s on the inside – the state of our spirits. Or, as Jesus put it:

The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
Luke 6:45

We know this in our heads – when we’re dealing with someone’s sinful or otherwise inappropriate or aberrant actions, the words and behavior we’re observing are an outflow of the person’s spiritual state.

Sometimes, it’s easy to apply that knowledge. You observe someone murdering someone else, and it seems pretty clear-cut to say that the murderer is almost certainly not a genuinely regenerated Christian. Which is why he’s murdering someone.

The waters get a bit murkier when it comes to discernment issues in the church and among professing Christians, but the same spiritual principle applies. We’re ultimately dealing with someone’s spiritual state, not their external behavior.

“I don’t understand why my friend can’t see that _____ is a false teacher!”, I frequently hear from frustrated Christians (and myself!). “I’ve shown her video evidence, print evidence, and audio evidence of this teacher twisting Scripture, teaching false doctrine, and blatantly sinning, and she dismisses it all, telling me I’m being hateful and legalistic or that what the teacher is saying and doing is no big deal!”

What we’re dealing with is a spiritual issue, not a logical one. No amount of biblical evidence in the world is going to convince your friend of false doctrine until the Holy Spirit opens her eyes to it.
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That’s because what we’re dealing with is a spiritual issue, not a logical one. No amount of biblical evidence in the world is going to convince that friend of false doctrine until the Holy Spirit opens her eyes to it. My job is not to argue my friend into believing that Joel Osteen or Beth Moore or Benny Hinn or Christine Caine is a false teacher. My job is to lovingly present what Scripture says, demonstrate how the teacher is in conflict with it, leave it on the table, walk away, and continue to pray for my friend. My job is done. It is now the Holy Spirit’s job to open my friend’s eyes and change her heart.

My job is not to argue my friend into believing that Joel Osteen or Beth Moore is a false teacher. My job is to lovingly present what Scripture says. It is now the Holy Spirit’s job to open my friend’s eyes and change her heart.
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Still not sure about all this? Let’s take a look at what Scripture has to say:

The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers…but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. John 10:3b-5, 26-27

You really need to read all of John 9-10 to get the fullest picture of what’s going on here. Jesus has, once again, proved His divinity and Messiahship – this time, by healing a man who was born blind. That’s all the proof the formerly blind man needs. He is all in. “He said, ‘Lord, I believe,’ and he worshiped him.” (John 9:38) and that’s all she wrote.

The Pharisees, on the other hand, despite having just witnessed a miracle only God can do, and despite the very words coming out of the mouth of God Himself in 9:39-10:30 – overwhelming, irrefutable, biblical video and audio evidence, you might say – refuse to believe. Instead, they do the first century equivalent of calling Jesus a legalistic-Pharisee-hater: “Many of them said, ‘He has a demon, and is insane; why listen to him?’…The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.” (10:20,31)

Jesus gave them evidence. He gave them Scripture. And He did it perfectly because He was God. But they still chose to believe false doctrine over sound doctrine because they were not regenerate: Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.” (10:25-26)

Jesus gave them evidence. He gave them Scripture. And He did it perfectly because He was God. But they still chose to believe false doctrine over sound doctrine because they were not regenerate.
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Sometimes that’s what’s going on, spiritually, with our friends who follow false teachers. Despite what they say, how many times they’ve walked the aisle, prayed a prayer, or been baptized, or how intense an encounter with the Lord they think they’ve had, they’ve never been genuinely saved.

Jesus definitively says that His sheep – genuinely regenerated Christians – know His voice. They either instinctively know, through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, when what they’re being taught is biblical (Jesus’ voice) and when it’s not (the voice of strangers), or they’re willing to learn as someone else teaches them God’s Word. Whether it’s an instant spiritual aversion to false teachers, or a gradual opening of their eyes through the teaching of Scripture, they will not follow the voice of strangers.

I can’t tell you how many women have told me (and I’ve personally experienced the same thing myself), “I was attending this women’s Bible study where they were using a book by _____. I couldn’t really put my finger on it, but I knew something was wrong, so I stopped going. Later, as I learned more and matured in my faith, I realized I had felt uneasy because the author teaches false doctrine.”

If a friend is following the voice of strangers, it could be that she doesn’t know the voice of the Shepherd and needs you to share the gospel with her.

If a friend is following the voice of strangers, it could be that she doesn’t know the voice of the Shepherd and needs you to share the gospel with her.
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And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:24-26

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

People who aren’t saved, even if they appear to be and say that they are, aren’t going to “get it” when it comes to rejecting false teachers and false doctrine in favor of sound biblical doctrine. That’s something that only comes with a regenerated heart.

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. Hebrews 5:12-14

For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:6-7

Being unregenerate isn’t always the reason people follow false teachers. Sometimes the reason a friend follows a false teacher is that she has recently become a Christian, is immature in the faith, doesn’t know her Bible well, or is weak in the area of discernment.

When someone is genuinely saved, her life is on a trajectory toward holiness. But that doesn’t mean that God grows every aspect of her spiritual life at the same time or at the same rate. God may be growing your friend in kindness, or purity of speech, or self-control right now, and the “constant practice” of discernment might take a little longer, or not come as easily to her as it did to you. All Christians grow in the same direction, but we don’t all grow in the same time frame or in the same way. And that’s a good thing, because that way there’s always somebody strong to help me in my areas of weakness, and I can help others who are weak in the areas I’m strong in.

Something interesting I’ve discovered as I’ve studied and taught through the Old Testament books of Kings and Chronicles is a recurrence of some variation of this statement: “Nevertheless, the people still sacrificed at the high places, but only to the Lord their God.” (2 Chronicles 33:17)

Often, a righteous king came to power on the heels of an evil king. The evil king had introduced all sorts of idolatry into the nation, including building temples for idols and altars on the “high places” where the people sacrificed to false gods. As the righteous king settled into office and began painstakingly ridding the land of all the vestiges and accoutrements of idol worship, the people sometimes continued worshiping on the high places, but would worship God instead of idols. Was this pleasing to God? No. Not only was the place they were worshiping God defiled because it had been used for idol worship, but God had been very clear that the temple was the proper place for worship and sacrifice. However, the fact that the king had not yet been able to remove the high places did not make him an evil king or negate the fact that he was hard at work removing other, sometimes larger, icons of idol worship.

There are “high places” – areas of spiritual weakness – in all of our lives. I’ve got them, and you do too. Are they pleasing to God? No, and we should be working toward finding out what they are and tearing them down. But their existence doesn’t negate the fact that we love the Lord and are striving toward holiness, nor that God is hard at work conforming us to the image of Christ. Just because your friend’s “high place” is following a false teacher doesn’t necessarily mean she doesn’t love the Lord or that He isn’t at work in her life.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12

We’re not at war with friends who follow false teachers, so we shouldn’t be fighting with them, trying to “win.” Our enemy is the Enemy – the one who holds lost sinners captive. The deceiver. The tempter. The father of lies.

The next time you get frustrated with a friend who’s following a false teacher…don’t.

Remember that this is a spiritual battle. Lovingly lay out biblical truth as long as she’ll let you. Then, stand down, keep praying, and trust the Holy Spirit to do His good work through His Word.

This is a spiritual battle. Lovingly lay out biblical truth, stand down, keep praying, and trust the Holy Spirit to do His good work through His Word.
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Discernment, False Doctrine, False Teachers, Mailbag

The Mailbag: What did you think of Beth Moore’s “A Letter to My Brothers”?

May 7, 2018May 24, 2019 Michelle Lesley

Readers- Before commenting on this article, please familiarize yourself with my comments/e-mail/social media policies and my responses to objections about warning against false teachers. I will not be publishing any comments or responding to any e-mails that are covered by said policies or article.

Did you see Beth Moore’s recent blog post “A Letter to My Brothers“? What do you think about what she said?

The first thing you need to know about Beth Moore, if you don’t already, is that she is a false teacher who is living in current, unrepentant sin. She teaches false doctrine and twists Scripture to scratch the itching ears of her followers. She sinfully and rebelliously preaches to men, and she yokes in “ministry” with false teachers. These are not my personal opinions, these are verifiable facts. (See my article Five Reasons It’s Time to Exercise Moore Discernment for the evidence. You don’t have to take my word for it. Compare the things she says and does with Scripture (rightly handled and in context) and it will quickly become crystal clear.)

For years, I have repeatedly heard people try to brush these things aside as “everybody makes mistakes” or “no big deal.” These are not mistakes. These are sins that she not only has not repented of and stopped, she actually tries to justify. Sin is a big deal. It’s such a big deal to God that He sent His Son to be tortured to death for it.

Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
Isaiah 5:20

We would not say, “It’s no big deal,” if we knew a pastor who was proudly open about his serial adultery or joyfully endorsed homosexuality. Beth Moore’s open, proud, and unrepentant sin is just as inherently sinful. Why Christians continue to support her is both grievous and a mystery to me.

The reason it’s important you understand, for the purposes of this article, that Beth is a false teacher, is that you should view any theological statements she makes with a high degree of suspicion and discernment. Whatever theology Beth espouses is a house built on a foundation of sand because she is not hearing and obeying the (written) Word of Christ. Yes, she may, at times, say things that are perfectly biblical. That is by design. But you cannot have a sound structure when your foundation is faulty.

It brings me absolutely no joy to have to say such things. I would much rather joyfully point my readers to Beth as a doctrinally sound resource as I have done on many other occasions with many other doctrinally sound teachers. But in order to be obedient to Scripture, these things must be said in loving warning to Beth herself and to her followers.

Now, on to her article…

First, I’d like to give my overall impressions, and then move on to a few particular statements.

If I had to sum up this article in one word, it would be “vague.” I have more questions than answers after reading it. How, exactly, does Beth Moore define misogyny? Who is this large swath of men committing this misogyny? What, precisely, are they doing that constitutes misogyny? What sector of women are they performing these misogynistic acts against? What does she want these men to do instead of whatever it is they are doing? What, specifically, is the church supposed to do in response to this nebulous accusation of misogyny?

How is anyone supposed to agree with or refute the facts of what Beth is saying unless she gives clear explanations and details? What Beth has done in her blog post is to throw out unsubstantiated, generalized accusations against a wide swath of nameless Christian men and churches and she expects us to take her word for it that there’s some epidemic of misogyny across the board in the church.

There’s no there there. And I think there are several reasons for that.

Certainly, there are individual Christian men, even pastors, of every theological stripe who have had moments, like the ones Beth cites from her personal experience, in which they’ve acted like pigs toward women, or might even have a chauvinistic attitude toward women in general. Let me be clear- that’s sin, and they absolutely need to be rebuked individually for those sins and repent.

But among Bible believing, doctrinally sound churches and genuinely regenerated Christian men, there isn’t this widespread, large scale, general attitude of condescension toward and disdain for Christian women (that’s my guess as to what she means by “misogyny”, since she didn’t define it) who are obedient to the roles God lays out for us in Scripture and who don’t teach false doctrine. There just isn’t. (This general attitude might be more pervasive among men who claim to be Christians and/or subscribe to false doctrine, but Beth Moore herself has helped build that category of “Christians” with her false doctrine and unbiblical behavior. You can’t build a shoddy wall and then complain when it falls on you.)

Get LifeWay on the phone and commission them to survey a thousand genuinely regenerated, doctrinally sound women who aren’t preaching to men or partnering with false teachers, and who attend generally doctrinally sound churches, and ask them if they normally feel oppressed, patronized, or diminished by their churches or Christian men as a whole. I can practically guarantee that the answer will be a resounding “no.”

I believe that’s one of the reasons Beth’s article is so vague. She thinks her personal experience is common to all Christian women. But it’s not, because she and her poor theology and behavior don’t represent all Christian women, or even most of us.

I think another reason her article is so vague is that she can’t clearly state what she really means because she knows it’s unbiblical. Over the last few years, more and more people – high profile pastors, “regular Joe” pastors, average Christian men and women – have begun to realize and to speak out about the fact that Beth is a false teacher, preaches to men, and yokes with other false teachers. And though some small segment of those folks might qualify as “hyper-fundamentalists” (whatever that means – another vague, undefined, and, this time, intentionally pejorative term), all the ones I’m familiar with who have warned against Beth are reasonable, humble, credible, doctrinally sound Christians, not a tiny bunch of wild-eyed crazies with pitchforks at a Beth Moore book burning.

And, interestingly, while the rebukes that have actually reached Beth’s ears have probably come mostly from men (because men are pastors and have larger platforms and a louder voice), at the grassroots, non-celebrity, average person in the pew level, the vast majority of people warning against Beth are women. Generally speaking, most pastors and Christian husbands have no clue about the problems with Beth Moore. They assume that because she claims to be a Christian and a Southern Baptist, and because LifeWay endorses her and has helped build her empire, she must be doctrinally sound. I know because I hear from women all the time asking how to approach their pastors about the fact that their church is using Beth Moore “Bible” studies. Does Beth consider the discerning women who warn against her to be misogynistic?

I would suggest that the majority of any “misogyny” Beth has received or thinks is pervasive in evangelicalism is largely the result of Christians who know their Bibles speaking and acting upon that knowledge. Men ignored her in elevators and at “team meetings”? She’s “the elephant in the room with a skirt on”? The Bible says:

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. 2 John 9-11

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. Romans 16:17-18

As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned. Titus 3:10-11

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12

And in this day when the “Pence rule” is ridiculed and men’s lives are being destroyed with accusations of sexual harassment right and left for the most minor of real or imagined infractions, is it any wonder that any Christian man might keep his distance from any woman who’s not his wife?

I suspect Beth has been feeling the pressure – both in her “ministry” and financially – as more people become aware of the theological problems with her, and the sentiment behind her veiled accusations of misogyny is along the lines of, “I don’t like discerning Christians speaking out about my false doctrine, preaching to men, and yoking with false teachers. It hurts my feelings and is detrimental to my career. I want them to be quiet and let me continue to do these things in peace.” But she can’t come right out and say those things clearly because she knows what she’s doing is unbiblical, she’d be publicly admitting to it, and she’d lose even more followers and support.

Finally, I think a significant factor at play in the posting of her article is the popularity factor. Beth is riding the ebbing wave of the #MeToo and #ChurchToo movements and using that platform to gain more supporters to replace the ones she’s lost. Over the last few weeks, I’ve watched her do the same thing with the issue of racism on Twitter and by being a last minute addition to the MLK50 Conference. Racism and abuse/misogyny are both hot-topic, trending issues right now. Getting on board that train as a celebrity is a cheap and easy way to get your name in the headlines, your face in the spotlight, boost your social media analytics, gain more followers, and, thus, more customers to buy your materials and attend your conferences.

Want to know how I know this? Because even someone with as small a platform as I have has experienced it. I know what topics to write about that will get me the most clicks and re-tweets (and I usually avoid those topics for that very reason – it’s too tempting). I know the kinds of things you have to do to market yourself and your books successfully to Christian women (which is why I don’t have any books on the market or a larger following – I’m not willing to do some of those things). Beth Moore is a savvy businesswoman with plenty of smart people to advise her. She knows about these things, too. With Christians waking up in droves to the fact that she’s a false teacher, and with the fact that Beth is getting older and a fresh new generation of young female “Bible” teachers is gaining traction and a share of her audience, she’s got to do something to build her following. Everybody with even the smallest parachurch ministry knows how the game is played.

In closing I’d like to interact with a few particular statements Beth made.

I had no personal aspirations to preach nor was it my aim to teach men. If men showed up in my class, I did not throw them out. I taught.

I had no personal aspirations, nor was it my aim to snap at my husband the other day or tell a lie last month. That doesn’t change the fact that I did those things and that they are sins Christ calls me to repent of and stop. Beth acts like teaching men is something that was thrust upon her and that she had no control over so it wasn’t her fault. She also suggests that the only way to handle men showing up in a women’s class is to rudely “throw them out”, implying that if a female teacher restricts her class to women, she must be acting horribly rudely to any man who shows up. Baloney. I’ve explained in this article (#10) how women can kindly and graciously prevent men from coming to their women’s class in the first place and keep them from staying if they do show up. If men rebelliously decide to show up and stay in a women’s class or at a women’s conference, Beth or any other woman can certainly sit down and refuse to teach until they leave. That’s not even resisting sin to the point of shedding blood, it’s just calmly refusing to participate in it. Frankly, doing so would teach both the men and women in the room an extremely important lesson.

The fact of the matter is that Beth is just fine with preaching to men in defiance of Scripture. If she were really trying to obey Scripture she wouldn’t attempt to justify her sin, accept numerous speaking engagements to preach at conferences and churches whose audiences she knows ahead of time will contain men, or preach to pastors.

male leaders/fellow leaders…serve alongside them

Once again, these are very vague terms. What does Beth mean by “serve alongside” these male “leaders”? Is she talking about preaching alongside them at a conference or that she ought to be able to “serve” in the same capacities men can biblically serve in? Does she consider pastors to be “fellow” leaders because she views herself as equal to pastors?

Anyone out in the public eye gets pelted with criticism.

Anyone who becomes a Christian preacher or teacher gets biblically judged – by God and by people – with a stricter judgment, and Christians are called to reject false doctrine.

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. James 3:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

He can put us out there and pull us back as He pleases.

Yes, He can, and the fact that He “puts Beth out there” and has allowed her to have a large following in no way indicates that He approves of her behavior or her doctrine. The size of a person’s platform or the number of followers she has doesn’t mean God is blessing her because she’s biblical. In fact, it can mean exactly the opposite.

Ours is to keep our heads down and seek Him earnestly and serve Him humbly

If Beth Moore were keeping her head down and seeking God earnestly and serving Him humbly, she would almost certainly not be the celebrity she is, just like the myriad of Christian women who are doing those things and aren’t celebrities. Her article is indicative of the fact that she’s not “keeping her head down” – she’s making a big splashy statement and reprimanding good churches and Christian men and women to elevate herself. She’s doing what she can to keep the wheels of her celebrity turning. And if she were “earnestly” and “humbly” seeking and serving God, the very first thing she would do is repent of her sin and stop it.

opposition and difficulties are norms for servants of Christ

Especially when you’re not serving Christ because you’re intentionally disobeying Him. Of course people who stand on the truth of God’s Word will oppose you. You should expect that. And if you’re truly a servant of Christ, you should also expect God to discipline you when you sin. These are basic biblical principles a Bible teacher should know.

An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.
2 Timothy 2:5

It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then
you are illegitimate children and not sons. Hebrews 12:7-8

Even criticism, as much as we all hate it, is used by God to bring correction, endurance and humility and to curb our deadly addictions to the approval of man.

This is true! So may I suggest, Beth, that you humble yourself, and be corrected from your addictions to the approval of man? Step down, repent, take a seat under some good biblical instruction from a doctrinally sound pastor, and learn and obey the truth of God’s Word.

Scripture was not the reason for the colossal disregard and disrespect of women among many of these [key Christian leaders]. It was only the excuse. Sin was the reason. Ungodliness.

Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 1 Timothy 5:19

What leaders? Where are your witnesses? What, specifically, were their sins? How were they being ungodly? This is just one more example of vagueness and unsubstantiated accusations.

The dignity with which Christ treated women in the Gospels is fiercely beautiful and it was not conditional upon their understanding their place.

This is a fallacious argument that, as a Bible teacher, Beth should know is fallacious, because we don’t see Christ interacting in the gospels with any women who “don’t understand their place.” Every woman we see that Christ interacts with in the gospels is either already living in obedience to God’s Word, or is at the point of repentance, or Christ instructs her to “go and sin no more.” We never see Him interacting with a woman who is in-your-face defiantly, continually, and unrepentantly persisting in disobedience to Scripture. If we had seen Him interact with a woman like that, I’m sure He would have treated her with the same “dignity” He treated the “brood of vipers, blind guides, whitewashed tombs” false teaching Pharisees who acted like that.

Furthermore, this sounds uncomfortably close to the popular erroneous argument, “Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, so it must have been OK with Him.” All Scripture is breathed out by God. That means when 1 Timothy 2:12 explains and commands women’s “place” in the church, that’s just as much the words of Jesus as the ones He speaks in the gospels.

I am…deeply committed to the authority of the Word of God and to the imitation of Christ.

Then imitate Him by obeying His written Word. Be under the authority of the Word of God by humbling yourself and submitting to it.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 1 John 2:4-6

Beth Moore may have experienced some terrible personal treatment at the hands of individual men. I hope all of them were rebuked for their sin and repented of it. But the truth of the matter is that any generalized opposition or difficulty Beth is experiencing is not because she’s a woman, or because Christian men and complementarian churches are misogynistic, or because she doesn’t have a seminary degree. It’s because she’s in sin.

And I dearly wish she would repent. I spent quite a bit of time in prayer for Beth, weeping over her situation before writing this article. Beth is a beautiful, kind-hearted woman made in God’s image who is in angst because she’s persisting in sin and resisting the discipline of the Lord. My heart breaks to see her or any other professing Christian go through something like that. The answer to all her difficulties is so close, yet she pushes away the hands that lovingly hold it out to her, reaching instead for something that will never satisfy.

Beth, I love you and I long to see you truly flourish in Christ. Consider that the pressure and anxiety you’re calling “misogyny” might actually be the grace of God disciplining you, calling you lovingly to repentance. Today, if you hear His voice, please do not harden your heart. Won’t you repent and be reconciled to Him in obedience today?

Before commenting, please familiarize yourself with my comments/e-mail/social media policies and my responses to objections about warning against false teachers. I will not be publishing any comments or responding to any e-mails that are covered by said policies or article.

Calvinism/Arminianism, Mailbag

The Mailbag: Should I leave a Wesleyan church?

April 30, 2018August 13, 2025 Michelle Lesley

Readers, please note:
Comments attempting to debate Calvinism vs. Arminianism, or questioning the salvation of Calvinists or Arminians, will not be published.

A few years ago, we had to leave our church. In the area we live in, church teaching is mostly fluffy and there’s a lot of worldliness. We “settled” for a church in which we know the pastor and his wife personally. The pastor lives the Word he preaches.

The problem I have with the church is the doctrine of the denomination. They are a Wesleyan holiness background – Arminian. This past year I’ve done some doctrine study on my own to understand the differences in the Calvinism / Arminian camps more fully. I do not agree with some of the doctrinal stances of the church. Are these big enough issues to leave? Am I being too critical?

Finding a doctrinally sound church is probably the number one problem I hear about from readers, and it just breaks my heart. I dearly wish every church out there taught sound doctrine so this would no longer be an issue for Christians. If your pastor preaches sound doctrine and makes sure it’s taught in your church, be sure to give him a hug and tell him thank you.

I needed a quick brush up on Wesleyan theology, and some of my readers may not be too familiar with it, so let me start off with recommending two brief articles: Wesleyan-Holiness Theology and Who are the Wesleyans, and what are the beliefs of the Wesleyan Church?

Though much of what Wesley originally taught was biblical and doctrinally sound, two major doctrines were not: sinless perfection (also known as entire sanctification) and the idea that a genuinely regenerated Christian can lose her salvation.

“Wesley recorded the experiences of others whom he had no doubt were delivered from all sin and filled entirely with the pure love of God.”

Whether one defines “perfection” as “completely without sin” or “growth and maturity in Christ,” the idea that either can be achieved in a human lifespan in this fallen world should be a no-brainer for anyone who’s truly born again and who takes a few minutes for introspection and logical thought – no prooftext needed.

The fallenness of this world will never stop providing temptations for Christians to sin. Those temptations will be there, and you will continue to give in to them until the moment you die, regardless of how long you live. Furthermore, the longer you grow in holiness, the more God opens your eyes to sins of the heart that you didn’t even realize you were committing. Bitterness, complaining, jealousy, idolatry, pride… The longer you live, the more sinful you realize you are. Ask the finest Christian you know, on his death bed, if he no longer gives in to temptation, if he no longer sins, if he has reached the point of complete spiritual maturity, and he will say to you, with Paul, “Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?”.

Christian, you know your heart and your walk with the Lord – can you imagine ever getting to any point in your life at which you could say you were as perfectly sinless and mature as Jesus was?

The belief that someone who has been genuinely born again in Christ can lose her salvation is directly refuted by multiple passages of Scripture. The reason it can look to us as though someone has lost or forfeited her salvation – “deconstructed” or “left the faith,” if you will – is because, although many can fake it pretty well, that person was never genuinely saved in the first place. I’ve discussed the Scriptures dealing with the false doctrine of losing one’s salvation in my article The Mailbag: Can unforgiveness cause you to you lose your salvation?.

Let me also clarify that, while Wesleyans who hold to the tenets outlined in the articles on Wesleyism linked above are Arminians*, not all Arminians would agree with all of the tenets of Wesleyan theology. (Kind of an “All Wesleyans are Arminians, but not all Arminians are Wesleyans,” thing.)

*Just a little FYI for Christians who find themselves in discussions about Arminianism. ArmInian is spelled with an “I” in the middle. An ArmEnian (with an “E” in the middle) is a citizen of the Asian nation of ArmEnia. It is quite possible to be either a Calvinist Armenian or an Arminian Armenian :0)

To illustrate, I know a great many Southern Baptists whose beliefs could technically be classified as Arminian, but they would reject the Wesleyan notions of sinless perfection and the idea that a genuinely regenerated Christian can lose his salvation.

There’s a broad spectrum of Arminianism. Some Arminian churches are so biblical and handle God’s Word so well that a Calvinist could joyfully join one and find minimal disagreement with the preaching and teaching. I am Reformed and I happen to be a member of just such a church.

Finally, in addition to the formal doctrines of sinless perfection, losing one’s salvation, and Arminianism taught by Wesley, a lot can happen in 250+ years, and while I’m sure there are some small pockets of sound doctrine in individual Weseleyan churches somewhere out there, Wesleyism is now fraught with false doctrine of all sorts. This false doctrine mostly manifests itself as progressivisim (wokeness, egalitarianism, social justice, affirmation of perversion, etc.), but there are also examples of New Apostolic Reformation false doctrine as we saw a few years ago in the Asbury “Revival”.

You don’t state which Wesleyan doctrine(s) you find troublesome, so I’m not comfortable saying whether or not you’re being too picky and whether or not you should leave this church.

Another factor at play is how hard this pastor hammers the doctrines you’re uncomfortable with. A pastor who, for example, reluctantly keeps sinless perfection in the back closet because the church sign says “Wesleyan” but never talks about it from the pulpit is a different situation from a pastor who regularly preaches on sinless perfection and says you can’t be saved if you don’t believe this doctrine.

You also need to consider what your other options for churches are if you leave this one. Are there any churches within achievable driving distance that are more doctrinally sound than the one you’re attending? (You might find the resources in the “Searching for a new church?” tab at the top of this page to be helpful.)

The final piece of the puzzle, and probably the determining factor, is your husband. What does he think about all of this, and how is he leading your family? Is he saved? Generally doctrinally sound? I’m surmising the two of you are at least somewhat on the same theological page since you left the last church together and settled on this one together. If he is not leading you to sin, you will need to submit to his decision on this matter.

My counsel would be for you and your husband to make an appointment with your current pastor to ask questions and find out where he stands on all the Wesleyan doctrines. Then, you and your husband should take some time (a few weeks, a few months, whatever it takes) to search the Scriptures and pray about it together, as well as look at your options for other churches. Give your husband your input and let him know you’ll support whatever decision he makes.