Tag: Women’s Roles in the Church

Discernment, False Doctrine, False Teachers, Mailbag

The Mailbag: What did you think of Beth Moore’s “A Letter to My Brothers”?

Michelle Lesley

Readers- Before commenting on this article, please familiarize yourself with my comments/e-mail/social media policies and my responses to objections about warning against false teachers. I will not be publishing any comments or responding to any e-mails that are covered by said policies or article.

 

Did you see Beth Moore’s recent blog post “A Letter to My Brothers“? What do you think about what she said?

The first thing you need to know about Beth Moore, if you don’t already, is that she is a false teacher who is living in current, unrepentant sin. She teaches false doctrine and twists Scripture to scratch the itching ears of her followers. She sinfully and rebelliously preaches to men, and she yokes in “ministry” with false teachers. These are not my personal opinions, these are verifiable facts. (See my article Five Reasons It’s Time to Exercise Moore Discernment for the evidence. You don’t have to take my word for it. Compare the things she says and does with Scripture (rightly handled and in context) and it will quickly become crystal clear.)

For years, I have repeatedly heard people try to brush these things aside as “everybody makes mistakes” or “no big deal.” These are not mistakes. These are sins that she not only has not repented of and stopped, she actually tries to justify. Sin is a big deal. It’s such a big deal to God that He sent His Son to be tortured to death for it.

Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
Isaiah 5:20

We would not say, “It’s no big deal,” if we knew a pastor who was proudly open about his serial adultery or joyfully endorsed homosexuality. Beth Moore’s open, proud, and unrepentant sin is just as inherently sinful. Why Christians continue to support her is both grievous and a mystery to me.

The reason it’s important you understand, for the purposes of this article, that Beth is a false teacher, is that you should view any theological statements she makes with a high degree of suspicion and discernment. Whatever theology Beth espouses is a house built on a foundation of sand because she is not hearing and obeying the (written) Word of Christ. Yes, she may, at times, say things that are perfectly biblical. That is by design. But you cannot have a sound structure when your foundation is faulty.

It brings me absolutely no joy to have to say such things. I would much rather joyfully point my readers to Beth as a doctrinally sound resource as I have done on many other occasions with many other doctrinally sound teachers. But in order to be obedient to Scripture, these things must be said in loving warning to Beth herself and to her followers.

Now, on to her article…

First, I’d like to give my overall impressions, and then move on to a few particular statements.

If I had to sum up this article in one word, it would be “vague.” I have more questions than answers after reading it. How, exactly, does Beth Moore define misogyny? Who is this large swath of men committing this misogyny? What, precisely, are they doing that constitutes misogyny? What sector of women are they performing these misogynistic acts against? What does she want these men to do instead of whatever it is they are doing? What, specifically, is the church supposed to do in response to this nebulous accusation of misogyny?

How is anyone supposed to agree with or refute the facts of what Beth is saying unless she gives clear explanations and details? What Beth has done in her blog post is to throw out unsubstantiated, generalized accusations against a wide swath of nameless Christian men and churches and she expects us to take her word for it that there’s some epidemic of misogyny across the board in the church.

There’s no there there. And I think there are several reasons for that.

Certainly, there are individual Christian men, even pastors, of every theological stripe who have had moments, like the ones Beth cites from her personal experience, in which they’ve acted like pigs toward women, or might even have a chauvinistic attitude toward women in general. Let me be clear- that’s sin, and they absolutely need to be rebuked individually for those sins and repent.

But among Bible believing, doctrinally sound churches and genuinely regenerated Christian men, there isn’t this widespread, large scale, general attitude of condescension toward and disdain for Christian women (that’s my guess as to what she means by “misogyny”, since she didn’t define it) who are obedient to the roles God lays out for us in Scripture and who don’t teach false doctrine. There just isn’t. (This general attitude might be more pervasive among men who claim to be Christians and/or subscribe to false doctrine, but Beth Moore herself has helped build that category of “Christians” with her false doctrine and unbiblical behavior. You can’t build a shoddy wall and then complain when it falls on you.)

Get LifeWay on the phone and commission them to survey a thousand genuinely regenerated, doctrinally sound women who aren’t preaching to men or partnering with false teachers, and who attend generally doctrinally sound churches, and ask them if they normally feel oppressed, patronized, or diminished by their churches or Christian men as a whole. I can practically guarantee that the answer will be a resounding “no.”

I believe that’s one of the reasons Beth’s article is so vague. She thinks her personal experience is common to all Christian women. But it’s not, because she and her poor theology and behavior don’t represent all Christian women, or even most of us.

I think another reason her article is so vague is that she can’t clearly state what she really means because she knows it’s unbiblical. Over the last few years, more and more people – high profile pastors, “regular Joe” pastors, average Christian men and women – have begun to realize and to speak out about the fact that Beth is a false teacher, preaches to men, and yokes with other false teachers. And though some small segment of those folks might qualify as “hyper-fundamentalists” (whatever that means – another vague, undefined, and, this time, intentionally pejorative term), all the ones I’m familiar with who have warned against Beth are reasonable, humble, credible, doctrinally sound Christians, not a tiny bunch of wild-eyed crazies with pitchforks at a Beth Moore book burning.

And, interestingly, while the rebukes that have actually reached Beth’s ears have probably come mostly from men (because men are pastors and have larger platforms and a louder voice), at the grassroots, non-celebrity, average person in the pew level, the vast majority of people warning against Beth are women. Generally speaking, most pastors and Christian husbands have no clue about the problems with Beth Moore. They assume that because she claims to be a Christian and a Southern Baptist, and because LifeWay endorses her and has helped build her empire, she must be doctrinally sound. I know because I hear from women all the time asking how to approach their pastors about the fact that their church is using Beth Moore “Bible” studies. Does Beth consider the discerning women who warn against her to be misogynistic?

I would suggest that the majority of any “misogyny” Beth has received or thinks is pervasive in evangelicalism is largely the result of Christians who know their Bibles speaking and acting upon that knowledge. Men ignored her in elevators and at “team meetings”? She’s “the elephant in the room with a skirt on”? The Bible says:

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. 2 John 9-11

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. Romans 16:17-18

As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned. Titus 3:10-11

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12

And in this day when the “Pence rule” is ridiculed and men’s lives are being destroyed with accusations of sexual harassment right and left for the most minor of real or imagined infractions, is it any wonder that any Christian man might keep his distance from any woman who’s not his wife?

I suspect Beth has been feeling the pressure – both in her “ministry” and financially – as more people become aware of the theological problems with her, and the sentiment behind her veiled accusations of misogyny is along the lines of, “I don’t like discerning Christians speaking out about my false doctrine, preaching to men, and yoking with false teachers. It hurts my feelings and is detrimental to my career. I want them to be quiet and let me continue to do these things in peace.” But she can’t come right out and say those things clearly because she knows what she’s doing is unbiblical, she’d be publicly admitting to it, and she’d lose even more followers and support.

Finally, I think a significant factor at play in the posting of her article is the popularity factor. Beth is riding the ebbing wave of the #MeToo and #ChurchToo movements and using that platform to gain more supporters to replace the ones she’s lost. Over the last few weeks, I’ve watched her do the same thing with the issue of racism on Twitter and by being a last minute addition to the MLK50 Conference. Racism and abuse/misogyny are both hot-topic, trending issues right now. Getting on board that train as a celebrity is a cheap and easy way to get your name in the headlines, your face in the spotlight, boost your social media analytics, gain more followers, and, thus, more customers to buy your materials and attend your conferences.

Want to know how I know this? Because even someone with as small a platform as I have has experienced it. I know what topics to write about that will get me the most clicks and re-tweets (and I usually avoid those topics for that very reason – it’s too tempting). I know the kinds of things you have to do to market yourself and your books successfully to Christian women (which is why I don’t have any books on the market or a larger following – I’m not willing to do some of those things). Beth Moore is a savvy businesswoman with plenty of smart people to advise her. She knows about these things, too. With Christians waking up in droves to the fact that she’s a false teacher, and with the fact that Beth is getting older and a fresh new generation of young female “Bible” teachers is gaining traction and a share of her audience, she’s got to do something to build her following. Everybody with even the smallest parachurch ministry knows how the game is played.

In closing I’d like to interact with a few particular statements Beth made.

I had no personal aspirations to preach nor was it my aim to teach men. If men showed up in my class, I did not throw them out. I taught.

I had no personal aspirations, nor was it my aim to snap at my husband the other day or tell a lie last month. That doesn’t change the fact that I did those things and that they are sins Christ calls me to repent of and stop. Beth acts like teaching men is something that was thrust upon her and that she had no control over so it wasn’t her fault. She also suggests that the only way to handle men showing up in a women’s class is to rudely “throw them out”, implying that if a female teacher restricts her class to women, she must be acting horribly rudely to any man who shows up. Baloney. I’ve explained in this article (#10) how women can kindly and graciously prevent men from coming to their women’s class in the first place and keep them from staying if they do show up. If men rebelliously decide to show up and stay in a women’s class or at a women’s conference, Beth or any other woman can certainly sit down and refuse to teach until they leave. That’s not even resisting sin to the point of shedding blood, it’s just calmly refusing to participate in it. Frankly, doing so would teach both the men and women in the room an extremely important lesson.

The fact of the matter is that Beth is just fine with preaching to men in defiance of Scripture. If she were really trying to obey Scripture she wouldn’t attempt to justify her sin, accept numerous speaking engagements to preach at conferences and churches whose audiences she knows ahead of time will contain men, or preach to pastors.

male leaders/fellow leaders…serve alongside them 

Once again, these are very vague terms. What does Beth mean by “serve alongside” these male “leaders”? Is she talking about preaching alongside them at a conference or that she ought to be able to “serve” in the same capacities men can biblically serve in? Does she consider pastors to be “fellow” leaders because she views herself as equal to pastors?

Anyone out in the public eye gets pelted with criticism.

Anyone who becomes a Christian preacher or teacher gets biblically judged – by God and by people – with a stricter judgment, and Christians are called to reject false doctrine.

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. James 3:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

He can put us out there and pull us back as He pleases.

Yes, He can, and the fact that He “puts Beth out there” and has allowed her to have a large following in no way indicates that He approves of her behavior or her doctrine. The size of a person’s platform or the number of followers she has doesn’t mean God is blessing her because she’s biblical. In fact, it can mean exactly the opposite.

Ours is to keep our heads down and seek Him earnestly and serve Him humbly

If Beth Moore were keeping her head down and seeking God earnestly and serving Him humbly, she would almost certainly not be the celebrity she is, just like the myriad of Christian women who are doing those things and aren’t celebrities. Her article is indicative of the fact that she’s not “keeping her head down” – she’s making a big splashy statement and reprimanding good churches and Christian men and women to elevate herself. She’s doing what she can to keep the wheels of her celebrity turning. And if she were “earnestly” and “humbly” seeking and serving God, the very first thing she would do is repent of her sin and stop it.

opposition and difficulties are norms for servants of Christ

Especially when you’re not serving Christ because you’re intentionally disobeying Him. Of course people who stand on the truth of God’s Word will oppose you. You should expect that. And if you’re truly a servant of Christ, you should also expect God to discipline you when you sin. These are basic biblical principles a Bible teacher should know.

An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.
2 Timothy 2:5

It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then
you are illegitimate children and not sons. Hebrews 12:7-8

Even criticism, as much as we all hate it, is used by God to bring correction, endurance and humility and to curb our deadly addictions to the approval of man.

This is true! So may I suggest, Beth, that you humble yourself, and be corrected from your addictions to the approval of man? Step down, repent, take a seat under some good biblical instruction from a doctrinally sound pastor, and learn and obey the truth of God’s Word.

Scripture was not the reason for the colossal disregard and disrespect of women among many of these [key Christian leaders]. It was only the excuse. Sin was the reason. Ungodliness.

Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 1 Timothy 5:19

What leaders? Where are your witnesses? What, specifically, were their sins? How were they being ungodly? This is just one more example of vagueness and unsubstantiated accusations.

The dignity with which Christ treated women in the Gospels is fiercely beautiful and it was not conditional upon their understanding their place.

This is a fallacious argument that, as a Bible teacher, Beth should know is fallacious, because we don’t see Christ interacting in the gospels with any women who “don’t understand their place.” Every woman we see that Christ interacts with in the gospels is either already living in obedience to God’s Word, or is at the point of repentance, or Christ instructs her to “go and sin no more.” We never see Him interacting with a woman who is in-your-face defiantly, continually, and unrepentantly persisting in disobedience to Scripture. If we had seen Him interact with a woman like that, I’m sure He would have treated her with the same “dignity” He treated the “brood of vipers, blind guides, whitewashed tombs” false teaching Pharisees who acted like that.

Furthermore, this sounds uncomfortably close to the popular erroneous argument, “Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, so it must have been OK with Him.” All Scripture is breathed out by God. That means when 1 Timothy 2:12 explains and commands women’s “place” in the church, that’s just as much the words of Jesus as the ones He speaks in the gospels.

I am…deeply committed to the authority of the Word of God and to the imitation of Christ.

Then imitate Him by obeying His written Word. Be under the authority of the Word of God by humbling yourself and submitting to it.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 1 John 2:4-6

 

Beth Moore may have experienced some terrible personal treatment at the hands of individual men. I hope all of them were rebuked for their sin and repented of it. But the truth of the matter is that any generalized opposition or difficulty Beth is experiencing is not because she’s a woman, or because Christian men and complementarian churches are misogynistic, or because she doesn’t have a seminary degree. It’s because she’s in sin.

And I dearly wish she would repent. I spent quite a bit of time in prayer for Beth, weeping over her situation before writing this article. Beth is a beautiful, kind-hearted woman made in God’s image who is in angst because she’s persisting in sin and resisting the discipline of the Lord. My heart breaks to see her or any other professing Christian go through something like that. The answer to all her difficulties is so close, yet she pushes away the hands that lovingly hold it out to her, reaching instead for something that will never satisfy.

Beth, I love you and I long to see you truly flourish in Christ. Consider that the pressure and anxiety you’re calling “misogyny” might actually be the grace of God disciplining you, calling you lovingly to repentance. Today, if you hear His voice, please do not harden your heart. Won’t you repent and be reconciled to Him in obedience today?

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Before commenting, please familiarize yourself with my comments/e-mail/social media policies and my responses to objections about warning against false teachers. I will not be publishing any comments or responding to any e-mails that are covered by said policies or article.

Share Your Testimony

Testimony Tuesday: Berna Deene’s Story II

Michelle Lesley

Berna Deene’s Testimony II

(You may remember Berna Deene’s previous Testimony Tuesday story. Here, she  graciously shares with us another instance of God working in her life.)

Background….Brand new born again babe in Christ Jesus. In August 2011 I walked into a church with very few members. Only about twelve. I made thirteen. Only four men counting the pastor. The rest all women. I didn’t know much of anything but I was hungry and on fire for our Lord. I read my Bible daily and studied hermeneutics in depth.

One year later, I was asked to be Sunday School Superintendent. When asked, I said, “No, definitely not!”. “Why?” they asked. I told them it is not biblical.

A few weeks later during elections at church I was nominated for the position, and like a split personality I said yes (the devil and/or our flesh gets in when we least expect it!). I felt obliged because there was no one else.

I did it for three weeks. I loved it! I really loved it! I would open with a reading from Charles Spurgeon, Sunday School business, and a prayer. Then I was asked one simple question by my biological brother who happens to be a pastor and my mentor. He simply asked me, “So you’ve changed your mind about women’s place in the church….hmmmmmm?” My answer was a resounding NO. I know what it says in the Bible. So what was I doing?!!! On the third Sunday of my being Sunday School Superintendent , instead of Spurgeon and the rest, this is what I opened (and closed) with 1 Timothy 2:8-15:

I will therefore that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”

It is not me
It is Thee,
It is not we,
It is Thee.

I can not pray in earnest for something, then act as though God won’t answer. I surrendered all to God not quite a year ago. I pray to be an uncompromising follower. I pray for His church.

I pray for the men in my [church] family. I pray for their repentance, salvation, hunger and love of our Lord. I pray for their unerring obedience in God and that they step up and be the spiritual leaders of our family that He designed them to be.

How can I pray for the patriarchs to lead if I then accept the position strictly for them? As long as there is a Godly man in my household, in my church, I am commanded by God that they are to lead.

Christ is the head. Man is next, and then the woman. I spent my entire life railing against this fact. When our gracious, loving, almighty, forgiving God saved me, when I got up off my face and knees, He laid His truths before me. He opened my eyes to this undeniable hierarchy. He gave me a totally new heart and flipped my perspective 180 degrees to His Way, His Truth and His Life.

I surrendered. I am grateful. I have to obey Him. His word says I must not hold an office or teach or preach to Godly men in His church. Godly men are called to be our leaders. While I joyfully may continue to be the custodian of His church, the bell ringer, and an avid student who comes to praise, pray and seek Him, I can not, nay I am not allowed to hold the office of Superintendent as long as there are Godly men to do so. And I fervently pray that we always have Godly men in this church.

So as much as I love each and every one of you here, and want you to love me in return, as much as I want this church to succeed in all it does, I must not want it at the expense of Scripture. I am stepping down and I pray that one of you men step
into this position rather than leave it empty. If not, I am sure we can study without a superintendent.

And I want to thank The Most Holy Father, the Blessed Son, Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, my comforter.

And with that, I resigned. And don’t you know one of the men stepped up and stepped into that spot.

Fast forward 3 years…I had already left this little church for other reasons, but lo and behold, they have had a women in the pulpit for over 5 years now. I was thankful to not have been there when she stepped behind the pulpit.

Ladies, God is still at work in the hearts and lives of His people, including yours! Would you like to share a testimony of how God saved you, how He has blessed you, convicted you, taught you something from His Word, brought you out from under false doctrine, placed you in a good church or done something otherwise awesome in your life? Private/direct message me on social media, e-mail me (MichelleLesley1@yahoo.com), or comment below. Try to be brief (3-4 paragraphs or less) if possible. I’ll select a few to share on the blog another time. Let’s encourage one another with God’s work in our lives!

Christian women, Church, Complementarianism

Unforbidden Fruits: 3 Ways Women MUST Lead and Teach the Church

Michelle Lesley

Ladies, we whine too much.

Like petulant little girls, we look at what’s off limits to us, stomp our Mary Janes on the floor and cry “Why can’t I? I want to!” instead of giddily jumping into all the opportunities God has blessed us with. Instead of being happy and thankful for what we have, our greedy little fingers stretch out to grasp what God has said we can’t have because it’s not good for us or anybody else.

God has instructed pastors – who are, in turn, to instruct us – that, in the gathered body of Believers, women are not to preach to men, instruct men in the Scriptures, or exercise authority over men. And that’s what we focus on, and whine and kick our feet about. That part – the childish rebellion and discontent with the role God has graciously placed us in – that’s on us.

But pastors, we badly need your help on this one. Many pastors do a wonderful job of rightly and biblically explaining what women are not to do (And may I take a moment to say, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. I know how difficult that can be and that you take a lot of undeserved flak for simply teaching God’s Word on this subject.), but that “no” teaching has often not been coupled with the “yes” teaching of what women must do and how they must lead in order for women, and the church, to be healthy and function properly.

The “no” teaching of what the Bible forbids has often not been coupled with the “yes” teaching of what women *must* do and how they must lead in order for women, and the church, to be healthy and function properly.

You’ve loved us well to tell us not to bite at the apple from the forbidden tree, but we also desperately need you to take us on a tour of the Garden and introduce us to the all-you-can-eat buffet of pear and peach and cherry and pecan trees that we have the privilege and the responsibility to feast on.

🍊 The Other Institution 🍊

Did you ever notice that the “do” for women in the church comes before the “don’t”? We tend to totally skip over that enormous little word that kicks off 1 Timothy 2:11: “Let a woman learn…”. We have no idea of, nor appreciation for, how huge and groundbreaking it was for the Holy Spirit, through Paul, to proactively instruct pastors: “Hey, get these women in here, make sure they listen up, and train them properly in the Scriptures so they’ll be equipped to fortify their homes with biblical truth.”

We completely miss the fact that, though God installs men as the teachers and leaders in one of His foundational institutions – the church – He has very much made women the functional, boots on the ground, day to day, teachers and leaders by example – of His other foundational institution – the family. The church didn’t even exist for the first few millennia of human history, but the family has existed since Creation. And people who are members of families populate and lead the church. Raising and molding those people is a tremendous position and responsibility. A position and responsibility God has largely given to women.

Wives pray for our husbands’ growth in Christ. We build them up with Scripture. With a gentle and quiet spirit, we set a godly example for them as they observe our respectful and pure conduct. We encourage and help them in their leadership roles at church.

Moms pray for our children’s salvation. We pour the gospel into them at every turn. We train up our children in the way that they should go – in the nurture and admonition of the Lord – so that when they are old they do not depart from it. We teach them to love and serve and invest in the church both directly and by modeling these things for them.

And our single, widowed, and childless sisters work right alongside us in this labor, praying for church leaders and members, nurturing children at church whose parents are unsaved or unequipped to raise them biblically, encouraging and assisting brothers and sisters in Christ.

We grow and develop, nourish and support, exhort and sharpen the population of the body of Christ.

Men may lead the church, but women raise the church.

Men may lead the church, but women *raise* the church.

🍐 Woman to Woman 🍐

Essential to the health of any church is the component of women training women, whether in the formal setting of a Bible study class and structured women’s ministry programs or an impromptu “let’s get together for coffee this week” discipleship discussion.

Though we receive instruction in Scripture from our pastors, elders, and teachers, there are some counseling and teaching situations it’s not appropriate for a man to address with a woman, or that a woman understands better than a man. There are issues women face that men just don’t “get” in the same way a sister in Christ does. There are insights and perspectives a woman can use to explain Scripture to another woman that a man just doesn’t have. There are times when a woman needs someone to walk through a long term emotional journey with her that requires a personal intimacy which would be inappropriate for a man to engage in with her. And in the same way men are better equipped than women to train men to be godly husbands, fathers, and church members, women are better equipped than men to train women to be godly wives, mothers, and church members.

God knew all of this back when He breathed out the words of Titus 2:3-5…

Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

…and, again, 1 Timothy 2:11:

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.

Women must be trained properly in the Scriptures so we can take that training and pour it into other women, teaching and sharpening them into godly women, wives, mothers, and church members.

🍑 Super Models 🍑

Women instruct our brothers and sisters in the church in biblical truth when we lead by example. When we sin against someone, we go to that person and ask forgiveness. We demonstrate the importance of meeting together with the Body by being faithful in our church and Sunday School attendance. We model servanthood by serving the church and our brothers and sisters. We paint a picture of biblical compassion by ministering to the sick and others in need. We show Christians how to carry out the Great Commission by sharing the gospel. We set an example of trusting God when others see us depending on Him through difficult situations.

And one of the most important biblical concepts women have the privilege and responsibility of teaching the church through our example is submission to authority – a lesson the church is sorely in need of these days.

Because God blessed us by creating us as women, we have an opportunity to model submission to authority in a unique way that God has chosen to deny to men.

Because God blessed us by creating us as women, we have an opportunity to model submission to authority in a unique way that God has chosen to deny to men.

As we submit to our husbands, we teach the church what it means to submit to Christ. How to walk in humility and obey Him out of love. How to put selfishness aside. To trust Him to take care of us. To deny ourselves, take up our cross daily, and follow Him.

When we submit to God’s design for leadership in the church and joyfully carry out the work He has planned for us as godly women, we teach the church to submit to God’s authority and love Him by obeying His commands. We instruct our fellow church members in respecting and submitting to the pastors and elders God has placed in spiritual authority over us.

Submission to Christ, to God’s commands, and to pastors and elders is the bedrock of a healthy church. God has graciously given women the role – and the duty – of teaching these and other biblical principles to our churches in a way that men cannot -through our example as godly women.

Remember the series of fun little nutritional books that came out several years ago called Eat This, Not That? The idea the books centered around was, “Don’t eat that unhealthy thing. Eat this similar but healthy thing instead.”

Sadly, many Christian women have only been getting half the story. “Not that” (preaching to/teaching men and exercising authority over men) is biblically correct, but it’s not biblically complete. If all you tell someone is “Don’t eat that,” without showing her the “Eat this,” part, what she needs to eat to be healthy, she’s going to starve, and the church will be malnourished as well.

Christian women need our pastors to teach us to eat the fat of the land of being properly trained in the Scriptures and drink the sweet wine of leading and instructing the church the way God gifts us and requires us to. Only then will the Body be healthy and well nourished.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Should I attend seminary?

Michelle Lesley

 

For the past few months, I’ve felt a strong desire to attend seminary. After a lot of prayer, Scripture reading, and reaching out to my pastor and trusted, older, Godly friends for counsel, I began the process of applying [to a doctrinally sound seminary].

I’m in my early 30s, have never been married, and have no children. I lead middle school youth girls, women, and children in various classes at church, and work as a part time staff member in my church. I have a strong desire to pursue further education, and to teach and lead women and students. I am incredibly excited at the prospect of going to seminary.

I would like to know your thoughts about how a woman might know for sure she is being called to full-time ministry and what part attending seminary should or could play in that.

Great question, and one I wish more doctrinally sound women were asking!

Some might wonder, “What is the point of a woman getting a seminary degree if she can’t, biblically, become a pastor, elder, or exercise authority over men in the church?”. Because there are tons of other ways women can serve the Body of Christ, maybe in parachurch ministries or missions or as an author, or maybe by simply striving for godly excellence as a Christian woman, wife, mom, or church member.

Learning as much as you possibly can about the Bible, the church, and Christianity is never a waste, even if you don’t go into some sort of formal, paid position of ministry. If you’re a woman with time and resources on your hands, I’d encourage you to consider taking a seminary class or two, or even getting a degree, just for all the valuable things you’ll learn. Some seminaries will allow non-students to audit courses. Others offer degree and certificate programs specifically designed for women, online degree programs, and free online (non-degree) classes. A couple of good ones to check out are Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Reformed Theological Seminary. The Master’s University, while not a seminary, offers many courses and degree programs which are open to women. (The Master’s Seminary does not admit women as their scope is limited to preparing men for the pastorate.) Ligonier Ministries doesn’t offer a seminary degree program, but does offer many theologically rich online classes.

Whether you opt for a non-credit online course or move into campus housing and pursue a degree, be sure you keep your discernment radar on high alert, even at a doctrinally sound seminary. Believe it or not, even multi-degreed seminary professors can lack discernment or teach unbiblical doctrine. Don’t be intimidated by a string of letters and decades of experience behind someone’s name. If what he’s saying doesn’t match up with rightly handled, in context Scripture, he’s wrong.

Now let’s address a few of the more specific points the reader mentioned:

I think we way over-mysticalize this whole “call to ministry” thing. We think there’s got to be some kind of supernatural “road to Damascus” experience that we can point back to and say, “There! That’s the moment God ‘called’ me into ministry!”. But the Bible doesn’t really talk about a call to ministry in those kinds of terms. Remember, the account of Paul’s (and other Bible characters’) conversion and call experience is descriptive, not prescriptive. The prescriptive passage looks like this:

The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 1 Timothy 3:1

No mention of God speaking to you or a particular feeling or goose bumps or feeling “a peace about it.” Scripture just says if a man has the desire to be a pastor, that’s a good and noble goal. Just an objective statement of fact. So, by the same underlying principle, if a woman wants to dedicate her life to full time ministry, that’s a good desire.

The next step is to see if you’re biblically qualified to be in full time ministry. Simply wanting to be in ministry does not mean you should be in ministry or that God thinks you’re qualified to be in ministry. A few biblical passages any woman considering seminary or a career in ministry should consider:

📖 1 Timothy 2:11-15 You cannot, without sinning, pursue the office of pastor, elder, associate pastor, or any other position which requires you to teach Scripture to men, or hold authority over men, in the gathered body of Believers. If you’re a woman who’s going to seminary in order to pursue such a position, you are already biblically disqualified from ministry.

📖 Galatians 5:22-23 How’s your fruit looking? If your life generally doesn’t reflect the Fruit of the Spirit, you’re probably not ready for seminary or ministry. (In fact, you might want to examine yourself against Scripture to see if you’re really saved.)

📖 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 These may be qualifications specifically for pastors, elders, and deacons (which are all offices restricted to men) but the underlying principles would extend to anyone in a position of Christian leadership, and nearly all of them apply to Christians in general. Indeed, Paul says in 1 Timothy 3:15 that he is writing these things so that “you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God.”

📖 Genesis 2:18, Ephesians 5:22-33, Titus 2:3-5, 1 Timothy 3:4-5 If you are married and/or have children, Scripture is clear that it is your primary calling to be a helper to your husband, raise godly children, and manage your household well. Any seminary classes or degrees or ministry positions you pursue may not interfere with or impede your first calling. Additionally, if your husband objects to you attending seminary or pursuing a career in ministry, Scripture mandates that you submit to him and respect his decision.

📖 1 Corinthians 7:32-35 If you’re single with no children, God has given you the precious gift of being able to serve and focus solely on Him, and it may be the perfect time for you to attend seminary or serve Him in full time ministry. 

If you have a strong desire to attend seminary or pursue a career in ministry and you meet the biblical qualifications, the next step is exactly what our reader has done: pray about it, search the Scriptures, seek wise counsel, consider and evaluate the ministry you’re already doing in your church (If you don’t already love being a faithful, serving member of a local church, why on earth would you want to go to seminary or into full time ministry?), realize that there are a lot of things about ministry that are difficult and that seminary doesn’t prepare you for, and if you still want to go to seminary or seek out a ministry position, trust God to guide you and go for it.

Yes, it really is that simple. Desiring to dedicate your life to the service of our Lord or to study more about Him in seminary is a good and God-pleasing desire. If you can accomplish those goals within the parameters Scripture has laid out for godly women, why wouldn’t you pursue it?

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Christian women, Church, Complementarianism, Mailbag

The Mailbag: Should women give testimonies and reports, lead prayer and worship, read Scripture, in church?

Michelle Lesley

I was wondering about having a female missionary giving a talk on her mission field in place of the sermon for that Sunday. Also we have had a female worship leader saying the prayer at the end of the service.

When we consider women’s roles in the church, it’s good to think about these “real church life” types of situations and how best to handle them according to Scripture. A couple of resources here at the blog that might be helpful to those thinking through these issues are my Rock Your Role series- especially, Rock Your Role FAQs.

There’s a lot to address in this reader’s question, so let’s break it down into several smaller questions.

1. Is it ever OK for another sort of presentation to take the place of the Sunday morning sermon?

Well, it’s not anathema or anything. The Bible doesn’t command a certain order of worship on Sunday mornings (for that matter, it technically doesn’t even command that we meet on Sunday mornings, but that’s a bucket of worms for another day), but as we read through the New Testament, it’s apparent that preaching and Bible teaching were the centerpiece of the New Testament church’s worship meetings. I think that’s a good example to follow.

I’m a little leery of anything taking the place of the Sunday morning sermon. If I were a pastor (which I know we’re all glad I’m not) I would probably consider scheduling special presentations such as a lengthy mission report, choir presentations, dramas, etc. during the Sunday evening service, the midweek service, or another day. If the mission report could be shortened to 10 or 15 minutes, perhaps it could take the place of other parts of the worship service, or the service could (gasp!) be lengthened a few minutes.

If the mission report has to take the place of the Sunday sermon, the optics of a woman giving the report are a little iffy, because it gives the appearance that she’s delivering the sermon. If a man could give the report, or if the pastor can at least take a teaching moment to verbally clarify to the congregation (for visitors and others who may not understand what the Bible says about women preaching) that the woman giving the report is not preaching or delivering the sermon, that would be helpful.

2. Is it OK for women to give mission reports or personal testimonies during the worship service?

(For the purposes of this question, I’m going to assume that whatever kind of mission work the woman is doing is in compliance with Scripture. Also, the reader did not ask about personal testimonies, but I’m throwing that in because the two are similar in nature.)

I don’t see why either would be a problem biblically, as long as she doesn’t veer off into preaching, exhorting, or instructing the congregation (which I have seen happen), because that’s the biblical prohibition, not that women are never to open their mouths in church. I once heard a pastor say that when someone is going to give his or her testimony in his church, he has the person write out what will be said and then goes through a “dress rehearsal” of the testimony with the person where he can offer advice or editing. This is a really good idea, not just because of women (and men) who tend to veer off into preaching, but to correct any false doctrine the pastor wasn’t aware the person held to, to keep the testimony from going too long, etc. This would work for mission reports too.

I would encourage women who give reports or testimonies to check in with your pastor well in advance and ask if he has any advice, parameters, or concerns with what you might say. Focus on the fact that you are giving a report on, or testifying to, what you have personally seen, done, experienced, or learned. It’s fine to talk about something God has taught you through His Word or read a verse you found helpful in your situation. What’s not fine is to turn things around and tell the congregation what they need to do, learn, think, or believe. I know we’re constantly driving home the point that when it come to church, the Bible, doctrine, etc., it’s not about you…it’s not about you…it’s not about you. In this case…it’s about you and your story – giving all glory to God, of course.

3. Should women lead prayers or read Scripture aloud (verbatim, no commentary or teaching) from the platform during the worship service?

(I’m throwing in Scripture reading even though the reader didn’t ask about it, because my answer is basically the same for both.)

I would discourage both for a couple of reasons.

First, while neither is technically a violation of the “letter of the law,” so to speak, in the times we live in where so many women and their churches are in rebellion against the biblical role of women in the church, having a woman lead prayer or read Scripture from the pulpit or platform may send a message – to visitors and church members – that your church doesn’t want to send.

If a visitor walks in and sees a woman leading in this way she could draw the conclusion that your church is egalitarian. If she’s looking for an egalitarian church and thinks she’s found one, you’ll eventually have to disabuse her of that idea, possibly months down the road after she has already joined the church. If a visitor who’s complementarian comes in and sees women leading in this way, she could also draw the conclusion that your church is egalitarian and get up in the middle of the service and leave before you have a chance to explain the situation. The same kinds of conclusions could be drawn by the members of your church with similar results, causing unrest in your church. Why put a stumbling block in front of your visitors or members?

Second, there seems to be a tragic dearth of male leadership in the church in general. So many men are either too lazy or too afraid to lead, or they see very few examples of what leadership by a godly man looks like. I think it would be great for the pastor to sometimes ask men who need to learn leadership skills to dip a toe in the water by leading a prayer during church, and at other times ask a spiritually mature man to model leadership skills by leading prayer during worship. Sometimes, these kinds of situations aren’t about women’s roles, but men’s needs.

4. Should women be worship leaders (lead the congregational music)?

(Let me just take a moment to say that my husband has been a minister of music for about thirty years, so I do have some experience in this area.)

No, women should not serve as the worship leader. The primary reason I say this has more to do with the position of minister of music – a term I think we need to get back to – than the role of women in the church. The secondary reason I say this is in #3, above.

Overseeing the music ministry of the church, selecting music for worship and the teaching of biblical truths, being in charge of half of the worship service, and leading the congregation in worship is not some inconsequential thing that can be shuffled off to any Tom, Dick, or Harry who happens to have a nice voice. It is a pastoral role. As the pastor shepherds the congregation through the exhortation of the preached Word, the minister of music shepherds the congregation through the worship, praise, declaration, and imploring of the words we sing. Preaching is when God speaks to us. Singing is when we speak to God. And we need a pastor to teach and lead us to do that biblically.

By biblical definition, women are not to be pastors or hold that kind of functional authority over men in the church. Therefore, women should not hold the position of minister of music or “worship leader” (singing in the choir or on the praise team, singing solos, playing an instrument, etc., under the leadership of the minister of music, is, of course, fine). By the same token, men who do not meet the biblical qualifications of pastor or elder should also not hold the position of minister of music. Placing biblically unqualified people in pastoral positions is not only disobedient to Scripture, it exposes the church’s low view of, and lack of reverence for the lofty act of worship.

Please read Scott Aniol’s excellent article on this subject: Who Leads Worship?

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.