Church – Page 17 – Michelle Lesley

Welcome to another “potpourri” edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question.

I like to take the opportunity in these potpourri editions to let new readers know about my comments/e-mail/messages policy. I’m not able to respond individually to most e-mails and messages, so here are some helpful hints for getting your questions answered more quickly. Remember, the search bar (at the very bottom of each page) can be a helpful tool!

Or maybe I answered your question already? Check out my article The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs to see if your question has been answered and to get some helpful resources.

I can’t find any Scripture about cremation. Is this practice another pagan tradition Christians have accepted? I, myself was thinking it’s okay, but now I’m unsure. Thanks.

Thank you so much for setting a super example for us all by a) wanting to do the godly thing about this, and b) searching the Scriptures to find your answer.

You didn’t find any Scriptures about cremation because Scripture doesn’t mention cremation, and there are no related biblical principles that directly indicate that we either should or shouldn’t participate in cremation. And, no, the way cremation is practiced today in Western culture, it is not a pagan practice. Therefore, cremation is an issue of adiaphora, or Christian liberty.

I think Todd Friel has done a good job of answering this question from his “burial is preferable” perspective…

…but I don’t find it compelling enough to move me from my “either way is fine with me” perspective, and I feel like some of the things he says are stretching it just a tiny bit. A few reasons:

In the same way that the overwhelming majority of people – even many Christians – don’t make the Ephesians 5 connection between husband and Christ, and wife and church in a wedding ceremony unless it’s explicitly explained to them, the overwhelming majority of people – even many Christians – aren’t going to make the connection between burying someone and the resurrection of the dead at a funeral unless it’s explicitly explained to them. Naturally, I’m all for those explicit explanations during those respective ceremonies. I’m just saying it’s not an automatic connection most people make merely from witnessing a wedding or burial.

If you’re buried long enough, your remains are going to decompose and disintegrate, just like someone who is cremated, dies in a fire, is buried or lost at sea, is eaten by a wild animal, etc. If you’re being buried instead of cremated because you want to be sure you have a body to be resurrected into, I would encourage you to do a little more study on the science of the decomposition of the human body. God is able to resurrect every saint no matter what happened to her body after death. And besides, you’re getting a new body anyway.

I think a perfectly biblical, and possibly even more strongly Scripturally supported argument could be made for stewardship. Burial is typically much more expensive than cremation. What about the person who would rather be cremated and give the difference in cost to his church? What about a struggling family who could scrape together enough for a cremation, but would have to go into debt for a burial?

This is an issue you will have to pray about, talk with your family about, and maybe even discuss with your pastor. If your conscience would bother you to be either buried or cremated, don’t violate your conscience. A few more resources that may help:

Burial vs. Cremation on Wretched TV

What does the Bible say about cremation? at Got Questions

What does the Bible say about cremation? by John MacArthur

Is Prophetess X a false teacher?

What do you think about the teaching of Apostle Y?

Can I get your thoughts on LifeWay Women’s newest divangelista¹?

I’ve received several questions along these lines in recent weeks. Lemme just give you the quick and easy answers to these.

I would never literally bet my life on something, but if I were so inclined, I would feel perfectly comfortable betting that nobody who goes by the title Prophet/Prophetess or Apostle is doctrinally sound. In my experience, everyone I’ve encountered who has gone by one of those titles has been a New Apostolic Reformation heretic (NAR doctrine is literal heresy – another gospel). So, if you come across somebody who goes by one of those titles, there’s no need to sweat whether or not you should read her books or follow him on social media, just avoid all of them them all together.

I’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t think it has caught on widely, yet. It pains me to say this, but if you’re trying to find out if a certain female author or teacher is doctrinally sound and you need a quick rule out without doing hours of research on an someone you’re not familiar with, I would recommend avoiding any author or conference speaker platformed or promoted by LifeWay Women (the women’s division of LifeWay).

I’m not saying every author and teacher LifeWay Women features is necessarily a heretic or false teacher, I’m just saying that enough of them are that it’s reasonable to draw the conclusion that that’s mainly the type of woman they like to promote. (I mean, you don’t see them promoting women like me or Susan Heck or Martha Peace, do you?) I’ve written articles on many of their featured teachers. I’m not familiar with all of them, but all of the ones I am familiar with are biblically problematic.

And, of course, you can always use my article Is She a False Teacher? 7 Steps to Figuring it Out on Your Own for tips on researching any of these or other teachers.

Can I please, one more time, beg y’all to stop searching for the diamond chip in the pile of Women’s “Bible” study poo and just study directly from the text of Scripture? You don’t have to vet the Bible or worry whether or not the Author is doctrinally sound. God took care of all that for us.

And if you’re looking for some great women to follow on social media, blogs, or podcasts, or some wonderful pastors to listen to in your leisure time, click here.

¹“Divangelista” is just a slang term I coined because the phrase “popular women’s ‘Bible’ study authors” is too long and cumbersome for writing. It’s a combination of the words “diva” and “evangelical” and rhymes with “Sandinista” (if you’re old enough to remember them) for no particular reason.

I came out of the New Age and am looking for a good church. I went to your recommended list and found a church I was interested in. It looked great at first, but it appears they have a rather strange ‘membership’ proposition. It consists of you going to membership classes, then in front of a panel of elders, then you have to attend for up to six months before your ‘interview’. Honestly, I find this bizarre, unusual and is this really necessary? Please could you comment, or get back to me as we have been looking for a spiritual home for a few years now. Thanks.

I’m so happy for you that the Lord is leading you to seek out a doctrinally sound church!

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say, based on no other information than what you’ve given me, that this is probably a very doctrinally sound church. Typically, the reason churches have membership processes like this is that they’re trying to make sure, as best they can, that they don’t admit lost people into membership. The membership classes are for you to learn about the church – their doctrine, their practices, etc. The six month waiting period and the interview are for the church to get to know you and observe the fruit of your life – to see whether your walk matches your talk, so to speak. During this process, they can get a pretty good idea of whether or not you’re actually saved and growing in holiness, and you can get a good idea of whether or not this church is a good fit for you and your family.

Here’s what I would suggest. If I’m understanding correctly, you read all of this information on the church’s website, right? Why don’t you try visiting the church for several weeks and see if it even seems like a church you’re interested in. If not, the membership process is moot. If so, set up an appointment with the pastor or appropriate elder and ask him any questions you may have about the membership process.

If you end up needing to find another church, be sure you carefully peruse all of the church search engines and other resources at the Searching for a new church? tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page.

I would also encourage you to listen to this brief sermon series my pastor preached earlier this year about church membership. (Our membership process is similar to, though not quite as extensive as the one you described.)

I agree with you about women’s preaching. But I have a question, what do you think about when a woman translates the message of the preacher? I’m a missionary in Mexico and over here they don’t see a problem with women preaching in most of the churches. So one time at our church my husband gave his testimony in English to the American community and I translated in Spanish, and the other day someone asked me when I would like to preach on Sunday at the Mexican church and I was like “no thank you, I don’t think that is something I will ever do” but this person said: you have preached already. When you translated for your husband…. I personally don’t think is the same. But what are your thoughts?

You are correct. Translating and preaching/teaching are not the same thing, and a woman translating for a pastor or teacher is not something that falls under the biblical prohibition against women pastoring, preaching, or instructing men in the Scriptures. I, myself, have translated for worship services in the past.

That being said, because of the confusion and biblical ignorance of the people you’re working with, it sounds like the wisest thing would be for a man to translate if at all possible, and for you to take the women aside and disciple them in a proper understanding of the Scriptures that govern the role of women in the church.

We understand and agree with the value and Biblical reasoning behind church membership. We are in a small town with limited church options. The most solid church here is a church that requires believer’s baptism for membership. My husband would be more in line with paedo baptism and was baptized as an infant. He is a solid, Biblical, regenerate believer. Because of this we cannot be members. I have no idea what we should do in this situation.

OK, let’s take a deep breath and put things into biblical perspective. As you know, church membership is very important and shouldn’t be treated as trivial, but in a situation like this in which you’ve done everything you possibly can to pursue membership, but it’s impossible, your husband is not sinning by not going through the formal membership process. (You didn’t specify, but from your message, it sounds like you either have been baptized as a Believer or would be willing to submit to credo baptism.) Let me offer you a few thoughts:

(This first thought is for my unmarried readers, and is not meant as a criticism of you.) Single ladies considering marriage – it is extremely important that you and your intended be as close to 100% agreement in your theology as humanly possible before you get married. As you can see from this dear sister’s dilemma, differing views on things like baptism are not a “no big deal” proposition, and can cause issues in your marriage and in parenting.

If you haven’t already done so, the two of you need to make an appointment with the pastor and discuss your concerns, beliefs, and questions. Some churches have a provisional type of membership for situations like this.

Have you thoroughly scoured all of the church search engines at the Searching for a new church? tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page? Perhaps there’s a new church you’re not aware of, or another church in a neighboring town that would be a better fit for your family.

If this church is absolutely the only option available, and you’ve talked with the pastor, my counsel would be for you to go through the membership process (assuming you’re credo baptist) and for both of you to attend and serve faithfully, as far as is possible (most churches don’t allow non-members to serve in certain ways or positions). If your husband’s convictions about baptism change at some point, he can then pursue membership.

And, as I suggested to the previous reader who asked about church membership, I would also encourage you to listen to this brief sermon series my pastor preached earlier this year about church membership. I think you’ll find it encouraging.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Christian women, Church, Complementarianism

Throwback Thursday ~ Unforbidden Fruits: 3 Ways Women MUST Lead and Teach the Church

August 4, 2022August 3, 2022 Michelle Lesley

Originally published April 20, 2018

Ladies, we whine too much.

Like petulant little girls, we look at what’s off limits to us, stomp our Mary Janes on the floor and cry “Why can’t I? I want to!” instead of giddily jumping into all the opportunities God has blessed us with. Instead of being happy and thankful for what we have, our greedy little fingers stretch out to grasp what God has said we can’t have because it’s not good for us or anybody else.

God has instructed pastors – who are, in turn, to instruct us – that, in the gathered body of Believers, women are not to preach to men, instruct men in the Scriptures, or exercise authority over men. And that’s what we focus on, and whine and kick our feet about. That part – the childish rebellion and discontent with the role God has graciously placed us in – that’s on us.

But pastors, we badly need your help on this one. Many pastors do a wonderful job of rightly and biblically explaining what women are not to do (And may I take a moment to say, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. I know how difficult that can be and that you take a lot of undeserved flak for simply teaching God’s Word on this subject.), but that “no” teaching has often not been coupled with the “yes” teaching of what women must do and how they must lead in order for women, and the church, to be healthy and function properly.

The “no” teaching of what the Bible forbids has often not been coupled with the “yes” teaching of what women *must* do and how they must lead in order for women, and the church, to be healthy and function properly.
Tweet

You’ve loved us well to tell us not to bite at the apple from the forbidden tree, but we also desperately need you to take us on a tour of the Garden and introduce us to the all-you-can-eat buffet of pear and peach and cherry and pecan trees that we have the privilege and the responsibility to feast on.

🍊 The Other Institution 🍊

Did you ever notice that the “do” for women in the church comes before the “don’t”? We tend to totally skip over that enormous little word that kicks off 1 Timothy 2:11: “Let a woman learn…”. We have no idea of, nor appreciation for, how huge and groundbreaking it was for the Holy Spirit, through Paul, to proactively instruct pastors: “Hey, get these women in here, make sure they listen up, and train them properly in the Scriptures so they’ll be equipped to fortify their homes with biblical truth.”

We completely miss the fact that, though God installs men as the teachers and leaders in one of His foundational institutions – the church – He has very much made women the functional, boots on the ground, day to day, teachers and leaders by example – of His other foundational institution – the family. The church didn’t even exist for the first few millennia of human history, but the family has existed since Creation. And people who are members of families populate and lead the church. Raising and molding those people is a tremendous position and responsibility. A position and responsibility God has largely given to women.

Wives pray for our husbands’ growth in Christ. We build them up with Scripture. With a gentle and quiet spirit, we set a godly example for them as they observe our respectful and pure conduct. We encourage and help them in their leadership roles at church.

Moms pray for our children’s salvation. We pour the gospel into them at every turn. We train up our children in the way that they should go – in the nurture and admonition of the Lord – so that when they are old they do not depart from it. We teach them to love and serve and invest in the church both directly and by modeling these things for them.

And our single, widowed, and childless sisters work right alongside us in this labor, praying for church leaders and members, nurturing children at church whose parents are unsaved or unequipped to raise them biblically, encouraging and assisting brothers and sisters in Christ.

We grow and develop, nourish and support, exhort and sharpen the population of the body of Christ.

Men may lead the church, but women raise the church.

Men may lead the church, but women *raise* the church.
Tweet

🍐 Woman to Woman 🍐

Essential to the health of any church is the component of women training women, whether in the formal setting of a Bible study class and structured women’s ministry programs or an impromptu “let’s get together for coffee this week” discipleship discussion.

Though we receive instruction in Scripture from our pastors, elders, and teachers, there are some counseling and teaching situations it’s not appropriate for a man to address with a woman, or that a woman understands better than a man. There are issues women face that men just don’t “get” in the same way a sister in Christ does. There are insights and perspectives a woman can use to explain Scripture to another woman that a man just doesn’t have. There are times when a woman needs someone to walk through a long term emotional journey with her that requires a personal intimacy which would be inappropriate for a man to engage in with her. And in the same way men are better equipped than women to train men to be godly husbands, fathers, and church members, women are better equipped than men to train women to be godly wives, mothers, and church members.

God knew all of this back when He breathed out the words of Titus 2:3-5…

Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

…and, again, 1 Timothy 2:11:

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.

Women must be trained properly in the Scriptures so we can take that training and pour it into other women, teaching and sharpening them into godly women, wives, mothers, and church members.

🍑 Super Models 🍑

Women instruct our brothers and sisters in the church in biblical truth when we lead by example. When we sin against someone, we go to that person and ask forgiveness. We demonstrate the importance of meeting together with the Body by being faithful in our church and Sunday School attendance. We model servanthood by serving the church and our brothers and sisters. We paint a picture of biblical compassion by ministering to the sick and others in need. We show Christians how to carry out the Great Commission by sharing the gospel. We set an example of trusting God when others see us depending on Him through difficult situations.

And one of the most important biblical concepts women have the privilege and responsibility of teaching the church through our example is submission to authority – a lesson the church is sorely in need of these days.

Because God blessed us by creating us as women, we have an opportunity to model submission to authority in a unique way that God has chosen to deny to men.

Because God blessed us by creating us as women, we have an opportunity to model submission to authority in a unique way that God has chosen to deny to men.
Tweet

As we submit to our husbands, we teach the church what it means to submit to Christ. How to walk in humility and obey Him out of love. How to put selfishness aside. To trust Him to take care of us. To deny ourselves, take up our cross daily, and follow Him.

When we submit to God’s design for leadership in the church and joyfully carry out the work He has planned for us as godly women, we teach the church to submit to God’s authority and love Him by obeying His commands. We instruct our fellow church members in respecting and submitting to the pastors and elders God has placed in spiritual authority over us.

Submission to Christ, to God’s commands, and to pastors and elders is the bedrock of a healthy church. God has graciously given women the role – and the duty – of teaching these and other biblical principles to our churches in a way that men cannot -through our example as godly women.

Remember the series of fun little nutritional books that came out several years ago called Eat This, Not That? The idea the books centered around was, “Don’t eat that unhealthy thing. Eat this similar but healthy thing instead.”

Sadly, many Christian women have only been getting half the story. “Not that” (preaching to/teaching men and exercising authority over men) is biblically correct, but it’s not biblically complete. If all you tell someone is “Don’t eat that,” without showing her the “Eat this,” part, what she needs to eat to be healthy, she’s going to starve, and the church will be malnourished as well.

Christian women need our pastors to teach us to eat the fat of the land of being properly trained in the Scriptures and drink the sweet wine of leading and instructing the church the way God gifts us and requires us to. Only then will the Body be healthy and well nourished.

Church, Sermons

What the Bible Says About Church Membership

July 27, 2022July 26, 2022 Michelle Lesley

“The Bible doesn’t say Christians have to join a church.”

Are you sure about that? Because most people who say that don’t seem to know their Bibles very well. They’d probably know a lot more about what the Bible does and doesn’t say about joining a church if they were joined to a solid local church.

If you’ve been around the blog for a while, you’ve probably heard me say:

Christian, you need to be a faithful, invested member of a doctrinally sound local church.
Tweet

You might have noticed that, often, my first instruction to a new Christian or a sister seeking counsel is to find a doctrinally sound church to join.

One of my most shared resources is the Searching for a new church? tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page.

Maybe you’ve even explored some of my materials explaining how crucial church membership and faithful attendance are, such as…

Six Ways Not to Forsake the Assembly

7 Reasons Church is Not Optional and Non-Negotiable for Christians

A Word Fitly Spoken Podcast: Is This Church for You? with Michelle Lesley and Amy Spreeman

…just to name a few

But just why is church membership so important? What does the Bible really teach about church membership?

Today, I’m going to turn things over to my pastor, Dr. Lewis Richerson, to explain. Below is an excellent three part sermon series he preached earlier this year on church membership. I found it very helpful and interesting, and I hope you will, too.

Is Joining a Church Biblical?

Church Membership as Covenant

Meaningful Church Membership

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Potpourri (Michelle’s personal info… Female apologists… Cardinals are dead loved ones?… MacArthur a Mason?)

July 19, 2022October 5, 2026 Michelle Lesley

Welcome to another “potpourri” edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question.

Or maybe I answered your question already? Check out my article The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs to see if your question has been answered and to get some helpful resources.

Could I get your home address? I have some questions that I don’t want on the internet.

Where do you live? What church do you go to?

Have you ever gotten an email or DM/PM from someone you don’t know asking for personal information out of the blue like that? I have.

I love all of my followers and I love that by following me, reading my blog, listening to my podcast, etc., you feel a kinship, maybe even a friendship, with me. I dearly wish we could all be friends in person – and if you’re a genuinely regenerated Believer, one day we will be – for eternity! I can’t wait!

But while we’re on this broken, sinful earth, I’ve heard all the same “stranger on the internet” horror stories you have, along with the warnings not to give out personal information to said strangers.

That’s why my Contact and Social Media page – the only place I’m aware of where my email address is available – clearly says in the very first sentence (right under “Important information. Please read before e-mailing“):

I handle all correspondence with readers via email or social media private message (i.e. no phone calls or snail mail).

The next paragraph begins:

I regret I am unable to answer most emails/PMs unrelated to speaking engagements, and I cannot engage in discipleship or counseling relationships with individual readers via email/PM.

In addition to the fact that I don’t have the time that’s required to engage in email relationships (I’m sorry, I wish I did.), if you need one-on-one counsel or discipleship God’s plan is the local church, not the internet. It’s not right for me to get between you and your pastor or you and a Titus 2 older woman at your church, and it wouldn’t be the best for your spiritual growth, either. This is just one of the dozens of reasons it’s imperative that you be a faithful member of a doctrinally sound local church.

I’m honored (I mean that!) that any of y’all would want me to answer your questions individually or give you personal counsel, but even if I could, it wouldn’t be God’s design or what’s best for you. And for safety reasons, although I’m sure none of you have sinister motives, I have no way of knowing whether you’re you or some whacko is impersonating you, so if you ask for personal information from me, it’s not that I don’t love you, it’s just that I don’t know you, so you’re unlikely to receive a reply.

What are your thoughts on female apologists? Do we treat them the same as “female pastors”? These women frequently speak at mixed gender conferences on Biblical topics. I question, though, what’s the difference between letting a woman get behind the pulpit at a Saturday conference for both genders versus a Sunday morning?

That’s a very good question – one many more Christians should be asking – and the answer is, “There isn’t a difference.”. If something is a sin on Sunday morning, it’s just as much of a sin on Saturday afternoon, Tuesday at midnight, or Thursday at brunch.

~~It doesn’t matter what a woman’s title is~~ Wait, that’s not quite accurate. It does matter if a woman bears the title of pastor, overseer, elder, bishop, or the title of any other biblical office or position that Scripture restricts to men. There is never a time when it’s biblical for a woman to bear such a title. Why? Because if she bears the title of, say, “pastor,” and she’s doing the job of a pastor, she’s sinning by violating Scripture’s prohibition against women pastors. If she bears the title of “pastor” and she’s not doing the job of a pastor, then her title is a lie, which is also a sin.

But beyond those biblical titles and offices (for example: there’s no biblical office or position of apologist, conference speaker, etc.), it doesn’t matter what a woman’s title is. What matters is whether or not she’s violating Scripture by teaching men in the gathering of the Body. When the Body is gathered for teaching and/or preaching, whether that’s on a Sunday morning for church, on a Saturday at a Christian conference, or whatever the day, situation, event, or venue, women are not to instruct men in the Scriptures. Period. I don’t care what she calls herself, what she says she’s trying to do, or who gave her permission to do it. God’s Word doesn’t give her permission, and she’s violating Scripture.

When the Body is gathered for teaching and/or preaching, whatever the day, situation, event, or venue, women are not to instruct men in the Scriptures. Period.
Tweet

A couple of resources you may find helpful:

Rock Your Role: Jill in the Pulpit

Rock Your Role FAQs

Fencing Off the Forbidden Fruit Tree

How can we minister to unbelievers who believe cardinals are loved ones visiting*, or other signs they believe are their lost loved ones communicating with them?

*In case it’s not obvious, this is not a Christian site and I’m not recommending it for anything other than the explanation of this superstition.

To those of us who have been saved a long time and have never run into this idea culturally, it seems silly and laughable. But try to remember how scary death and the afterlife seemed before you got saved. Lost people have no way of making sense of death. No hope and peace of an eternity with Christ. Of course they make up ridiculosities like “There’s just nothingness after you die,” or “Everybody goes to Heaven” … or cardinals. They’re trying to comfort themselves, and this is the best that fallen mankind has been able to come up with. Only Jesus makes sense of death and eternity.

Only Jesus makes sense of death and eternity.
Tweet

Most people who remark on the appearance of a cardinal this way probably “believe” it about as much as they “believe” there’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or “step on a crack, break your mother’s back,” or that they’ll really have seven years’ bad luck if they break a mirror. It’s just something people once heard somewhere and they say it so they’ll have something to say at the moment.

So the first thing I’d probably do is say something like, “Oh really? I’ve never heard that before. Where does that belief come from?” or “Very interesting. Why do you believe that?”. And listen. Being interested in someone’s beliefs not only demonstrates that you care about her, but it’ll give you a better grasp of where she’s coming from, spiritually (maybe she really does believe cardinals embody the spirits of the dead), and hopefully it will give you an opportunity to share the gospel with her. And that’s what she desperately needs if she believes this cardinal ma-lark-ey. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist!)

You may also want to want to give a listen to our 3-part A Word Fitly Spoken podcast series, Death, Dying, and Funerals, where we discussed this issue (and other ways to respond to lost loved ones about death) in greater detail:

I listen to John MacArthur’s podcast daily. I love his study Bible and have learned so much from him. A friend recently sent me [a link from a so-called discernment site]. Are you aware of Pastor MacArthur having any ties to the Free Masons? Praying for discernment. Thank you for your help and guidance.

I’m so glad you’re seeking to be discerning rather than just believing whatever random thing you’ve heard on the internet. Good on ya!

This is just one of the many silly false accusations about John MacArthur that are floating around out there. (Frankly, by now, I’m kind of surprised nobody has accused him of being a robot from Mars.) But why believe me? Listen to Dr. MacArthur in his own words:

But I’m really glad you asked, because this is a great opportunity for me to share a couple of quick discernment tips with everyone:

Consider the source. Ever heard that before? It’s certainly true of blogs and news sites and discernment ministries. Some are reliable and trustworthy. Some are not. If you’re not sure, don’t just blindly trust the information from that site, especially if it’s largely speculation, conjecture, opinion, or just plain sounds nutty (or is backed up only by other sites fitting that description). Do your homework. Use sources you know to be trustworthy that are backed up by Scripture and other trustworthy sites.

(Personally – and this is the kind of thing you learn from experience, so it never hurts to reach out to somebody like me and ask if you’re new to this discernment stuff – I would never trust a website named GodIsTerrible dot whatever – the website shared with the reader who sent in the question. I know it’s based on part of a KJV Bible verse, but I don’t really care what the blogger’s motive was for choosing that domain name. Without context, it’s blasphemous and deliberately deceptive, and that’s not someone I’d consider trustworthy on anything biblical.)

Straight from the horse’s mouth. If you want to know what someone believes, it’s always best to go straight to the source, particularly if it’s someone you know or have reasonable access to. If it’s someone you don’t have easy direct access to, like Dr. MacArthur, go to his website, find the search bar, and start searching. You can even use an internet search engine. I found the video above by typing “John MacArthur masons” into Google. It was the second hit.

Keep up the great work of being a good Berean!

Mailbag, Southern Baptist/SBC

The Mailbag: How could anyone stay in the SBC now?

July 5, 2022June 12, 2025 Michelle Lesley

In the past, I’ve received some responses/comments on this issue from Christians who seem very angry that anybody is still in the SBC. While I share your righteous anger at the sin being committed in the SBC (and at those committing it), please don’t let your anger spill over onto your brothers and sisters who are still attempting to navigate this situation in a godly way in the context of their own families and local churches. Angry/accusatory comments will not be published.

“How could any doctrinally sound Christian possibly stay in the Southern Baptist Convention after all of this?”

“I’ve been watching what’s going on in the SBC. I know all SBC churches are autonomous, but, after what I’ve seen, I’m now suspicious of the doctrine of any church that decides to stay in the SBC. As a doctrinally sound Christian, I’ll never set foot in another SBC church.”

“If you don’t like what’s going on in the SBC, why don’t you just leave? If you stay in, you have no right to complain!”

This is just a representative sampling of the scores of comments and questions I’ve received and seen over the past couple of months regarding Christians remaining in Southern Baptist churches, and Southern Baptist churches remaining in the Southern Baptist Convention.

Here’s a blow by blow (see “Additional Resources” section) of the specifics of the 2022 annual meeting of the SBC which took place last month in Anaheim. After reading about it, maybe you’ll be scratching your head and asking some of these same questions.

I’m kinda scratching my own head about how to answer, because, to be perfectly transparent, I have some of these same questions.

I’ve been Southern Baptist since the day I was born. It’s not like I just jumped on this turnip truck last week. I’ve been watching the downward spiral of the SBC for years, and it’s only picking up speed.

I’m neither a prophet, nor the son of a prophet, but I can tell you this (maybe from years of experience studying the culture of false teachers, false doctrine, and apostate churches) – without God directly intervening in a miraculous way, the SBC is not coming back from this. We are not going to turn anything around at next year’s Convention in New Orleans. The biblical side of the aisle will continue to lose and the unbiblical side of the aisle will continue to win. The worldly powers that be in the SBC are going to keep pursuing this course of downgrade until it hits rock bottom. I see unconditional acceptance of female “pastors” happening in the next 5-8 years. Acceptance of homosexuality will be next.

The SBC is *not* coming back from this. We are not going to turn anything around at next year’s Convention in New Orleans.
Tweet

I hope I’m wrong. No one will rejoice more loudly than I if I’m wrong. But I don’t think it’s going to shake out that way.

So, if it were as easy as pushing a button or snapping my fingers, I, as an individual, would have been out of the SBC about 5+ years ago.

But it’s not that simple, so maybe I’d better explain.

The first thing that’s imperative to understanding why your doctrinally sound friend might be staying in the SBC is our doctrine of the autonomy of the local church. The SBC isn’t technically a denomination, like Presbyterians or Lutherans. We do not have a hierarchy that rules over every church or organization under its purview. The SBC is a voluntary cooperative of individual, autonomous churches.

When we first got started back in 1845, the main idea was for all these little tiny, far flung rural churches to band together to pool their resources to send out and support missionaries, because they couldn’t afford to do so individually. And that’s still one of our main purposes today. But we didn’t set up a governing hierarchy. Each church governed itself as it saw fit according to Scripture and congregational conscience. The leadership structure we now have in place is basically for the purpose of administrating the business (properties, entities, money, etc.) of the Convention as directed by the churches. We are a “bottom up,” not “top down,” organization. The president of the SBC isn’t the “Baptist Pope”. The Executive Committee isn’t an ecclesiastical court. The annual meeting isn’t some sort of SBC legislature handing down edicts that every Southern Baptist church and individual is required to obey. In theory, every SBC church could disagree with and operate in opposition to virtually everyone and everything at the national, state, and local level of the SBC, and still be a member in good standing of all three. Local churches govern themselves.

Next, you need to understand that most Southern Baptists aren’t Southern Baptists because they woke up one morning, did a comparative analysis of the doctrines of all denominations, liked SBC doctrine the best, and, thus, went in search of an SBC church to join. Usually, it’s a) someone was born and raised Southern Baptist and she agrees with SBC doctrine and theology, so she hasn’t been compelled to (or can’t) find a better denomination and leave the SBC, or, b) someone who, for whatever reason, is looking for a new church, and the most doctrinally sound church she can find in her area is a Southern Baptist church (which is not uncommon). For many of us, it’s a combination of both.

In other words, Southern Baptist individuals aren’t Southern Baptist because they set out to join a denomination. They’re Southern Baptist because they joined a local church. And because that local church is a member of the SBC, that individual is now Southern Baptist, too, whether she wants to be or not.

So when you ask a Southern Baptist individual, “If you don’t like the SBC, why don’t you just leave it?” it’s not like asking her to cancel her Netflix subscription and opt for Hulu instead. You’re not asking her to write a letter of resignation to some impersonal national organization and stop paying her membership dues. You’re asking her to leave her local church. A church which may have been her spiritual family for decades. A church which might be perfectly doctrinally sound. In her area, it might be the most doctrinally sound church available, and you’re asking her to leave it to go to a less doctrinally sound church, just to cut ties with the SBC.

When you ask a Southern Baptist individual, “If you don’t like the SBC, why don’t you just leave it?” it’s not like asking her to cancel her Netflix subscription and opt for Hulu instead. You’re asking her to leave her *local church*.
Tweet

So, considering all the Southern Baptists I know and have heard from, and taking all of the above into account, there are three main categories of people who are still in the SBC that I’d like to take a moment to address, and anywhere from three to a scrillion different ways they could biblically deal with being Southern Baptist while seeing all of these godless things taking place on the national SBC stage:

You’re a doctrinally sound, discerning Christian in a local SBC church whose pastor and leadership agree with the unbiblical goings on at the national level. You need to get out of that church, probably immediately, and find a doctrinally sound local church to join. You should strongly and prayerfully consider finding a non-SBC, and honestly, probably a non-denominational (because most of the problems in the SBC are happening in all the other denominations, too, or soon will) or independent church. However, if the best church you can find in your area is an SBC church that’s fighting against the sin and evil at the national level, don’t hesitate to join it and join them in the fight.

You’re a doctrinally sound, discerning Christian in a doctrinally sound local SBC church whose pastor and leadership are fighting against the unbiblical goings on at the national level. If your position is, “I want our church to leave the SBC immediately,” and your pastor’s / elders’ position is, “We’ve prayed about it and searched the Scriptures about it, and for X, Y, and Z biblical reason, we believe God would have us stay in one more year and fight,” and that’s basically the only disagreement you have with them, that’s not a reason to leave a good, solid church. Submit to your pastors’ leadership, trust them, support them, trust God, hang in there, be patient, and be sanctified by this as you watch and pray.

You’re a pastor of a doctrinally sound local SBC church and you’re positionally against and/or actively fighting against the unbiblical goings on at the national (and probably state and local, too) level. How long do you stay in and keep fighting? Obviously, it’s not my place to tell you what to do, but, from the perspective of a church member who’s been carefully keeping apprised of the SBC situation for a lot of years, could I just throw out a few questions you may want to consider between you and the Lord as you pray through the monumental decision of whether to lead your congregation to get out now or to stay in and fight for a while?

–Have you carefully examined your reasons and motivations for wanting to stay in and fight? Are those reasons and motivations drawn from Scripture? Pragmatism? The flesh? Have you considered these Scriptures with regard to leaving?

–What is your exit strategy? Will you stay in until you see how next year’s Convention goes? Until the SBC approves of women pastors? Homosexuality? Biblically, do you not have a responsibility as a shepherd and a Christian to draw a “this far and no farther” line in the sand? Where is that line?

–How much time, energy, and money have you and your church already expended on what will almost certainly be a losing fight? Is it good stewardship of your resources to continue to put them toward this fight? Could they be better spent in another way to get more Kingdom “bang for your buck”?

–I’ve heard some pastors say, “I want to stay in because of our missionaries.”. The sinful ideologies poisoning the SBC have not and will not leave the IMB untouched (and we know NAMB already requires its church planters to preach a false gospel). If it’s not happening already, your missions money may soon be funding the spread of false doctrine. Can you have that on your conscience? If you’re certain the SBC missionaries your church currently directly supports are doctrinally sound, have you looked into how you could support them from outside the SBC? Can you trust God to provide for them if you’re biblically compelled to lead your church to leave the SBC? What about supporting non-SBC, doctrinally sound missions agencies like TMAI and HeartCry?

–Carefully consider the second bolded quote at the beginning of this article. Is it possible your church’s good reputation is being tarnished by remaining in the SBC? “The world is watching!” we’ve been hearing for a couple of years now. Maybe it was said with the wrong motives, but it’s true. And the rest of Christendom has been watching too. Will staying in the SBC lead doctrinally sound Christians looking for a good solid church to pass yours over because they think you agree with the SBC’s sinful shenanigans since you haven’t left yet?

–If you’re going to stay in and fight, may I encourage you to start now? Right now. Today. I love all my brothers and sisters in the “stay in and fight” camp, but the past few years I’ve been extremely frustrated at the general way everything seems to be thrown together in a last minute scramble to rally the troops in the last few months, weeks, and days before the Convention.

Make plans to attend the New Orleans meeting now, raise funds to send messengers now, nominate godly candidates for SBC offices now, and tour them around to local churches all year long to build momentum. And most importantly, educate your church and your local association’s churches on the issues and the biblical response to those issues, now. Don’t wait until April, May, and June of next year, start now.

–Watch and listen to this SBC pastor talk about the issues in the SBC that led to his decision to lead his church out of the SBC. A must watch for every pastor and congregation that’s still in the Southern Baptist Convention:

Last year, I wrote When is it time to leave the SBC?. I can’t decide that for your church or mine. I just want to know, what’s one good, compelling, biblical reason to stay? Because I can think of lots of good, compelling, biblical reasons to leave.

I just want to know, what’s one good, compelling, biblical reason to stay in the SBC? Because I can think of lots of good, compelling, biblical reasons to leave.
Tweet