Tag: Biblical Womanhood

Christian women, Complementarianism

Women Teaching Men: My Thoughts on Aimee’s and Mary’s Articles

Michelle Lesley

aimee mary

UPDATE: Please note, this article was written in 2016. It should not be construed to be a current endorsement of either Aimee or Mary.

My friends and readers are the best. They are so sweet and helpful when it comes to making sure I stay up to date on what’s happening out there in Evangelicaland. It’s like having a little army of really smart co-laborers who are great at research.

Last week, a couple of articles about women teaching men appeared on the Reformed complementarian women’s landscape, and several folks were kind enough to send them to me and ask for my reaction. I e-mailed the readers back with my responses, which I’ve posted below.

What is Sunday School? What Does it Appear to Be? And Who Can Teach It?
by Aimee Byrd
May 18, 2016

I have loved and respected Aimee’s work as a writer and podcaster for a while. This article was apparently written to clarify some things that had been said on a Mortification of Spin podcast.

“I didn’t catch the podcast, but I did read the article. I was disappointed with what Aimee said, because Steve’s comments [Steve Cooley’s comments in the comment section following the article] are correct. Also, if we look at the broad pattern of male headship in Scripture…

man was created first, then woman
woman was created to be helper to man
women are to submit to their husbands
women are not to serve in the office of elder or pastor
women are not to preach to men
women are not to exercise authority over/lead men in the church

…which fits better with this pattern, women teaching men in co-ed Sunday School or women not teaching men in co-ed Sunday School? I think it’s pretty clear that women not teaching men in co-ed Sunday School fits best. Why would God set this pattern of male headship in motion and then turn around and contradict it when it comes to women teaching men in Sunday School?

Furthermore, the gathering of a body of believers for studying the Bible is the gathering of the church, whether it is in someone’s home (like the first century church), a sanctuary, or a Sunday School classroom. We’re the ones who have invented all these lines of delineation between Sunday School, worship service, Christian conferences, revival meetings, etc., and then tried to go back and figure out which of these man-made distinctions 1 Timothy 2:12 applies to. When 1 Timothy was written, they didn’t have all that. The church was just the gathering of the believers for worship, study, etc. So 1 Timothy 2:12 applies to the gathered body of believers without respect to all these artificial lines we’ve drawn.”

Again, I have great respect for Aimee, but I disagree with her on this particular issue. It’s possible that the differences in our denominational viewpoints of Sunday School play a big part in this, and that if we ever had the chance to sit down and hash it out over coffee or something, we might find more common ground.

Women Teaching Men- How Far is Too Far?
by Mary Kassian
May 21, 2016

I’m not as familiar with Mary as I am with Aimee, but I’ve read and enjoyed a few of her articles. This one may have been a response to Aimee’s article above.

“Good stuff! I agree with her about 90%. I love that she brought out the part about “teaching under a man’s authority.” I wrote about that not long ago. It’s nice to hear somebody with a bigger platform say it. I hope people will listen to her!

I also love what she says about what we love versus following a set of rules. So true! Another aspect of this that I run into frequently with women who want to preach is that they’re so focused on leading they forget about Jesus’ example of humility in servanthood. We’re supposed to be focused on serving, not gaining notoriety.

My main disagreement with her would be the line she (and most others who address this issue) draws between the worship service and things like Sunday School and Christian conferences. Those are really man made lines of distinction rather than biblical ones. The “church” is the gathered body of believers for worship and biblical instruction. So whenever believers are gathered for those purposes – whether we call it Sunday School or worship service or a Christian conference, and whether it’s in a sanctuary, Sunday School classroom, or conference center – that’s the church, and the Scriptural mandate for women not to teach or hold authority over men applies.

I also think it’s interesting that in the second paragraph under “Can Women Teach Under Male Authority” she rightly points out, “The text doesn’t say, ‘A woman may teach men if…'”. But then later in the article she talks about how she feels it’s OK for her to teach men if they’re much younger than she is. Well, just like the text doesn’t say a woman can teach men if she’s doing so under male authority, it also doesn’t say it’s OK for a woman to teach men if she’s much older than they are. It just says “don’t”. Curious.”

Mary’s position on this issue is much more similar to mine. I hope to hear more from her about this in future articles.

Marriage

Marriage: It’s My Pity Party and I’ll Cry if I Want To ~ 7 Ways to Take Your Focus Off Yourself and Put it Back on Christ

Michelle Lesley

Let’s face it, Ladies, there are days when even the best of marriages are just plain tough. Hubby’s in a bad mood and snaps at you.* There’s no money in the budget for that thing you really want to buy. You’re feeling overworked, underappreciated, and beyond stressed. It can be all too easy to haul out the party hats and confetti, hunker down in the corner, and throw yourself one big “woe is me” bash. Have you ever stopped to think about whether or not it’s biblical to feel sorry for ourselves? Believe it or not, there’s not a single passage of Scripture that says it’s OK. So what does the Bible say about how to handle those times in our marriages when we want to indulge in self pity? Let’s find out.

*(This article pertains to normal, relatively healthy, Christian marriages. In other words, not abusive marriages. If you are being abused, get yourself and your children to a safe place, and call the police, your pastor, or a loved one for help.)

Have you ever stopped to think about whether or not it’s biblical to feel sorry for ourselves? Believe it or not, there’s not a single passage of Scripture that says it’s OK. So what does the Bible say?

1.
Have the mind of Christ

But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:16

take every thought captive to obey Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:5

be conformed to the image of his Son, Romans 8:29

As Christians, Christ is to be the master of everything we are, not just our words and actions, but our thoughts and feelings as well. We are to act like Jesus, talk like Jesus, think like Jesus, and even feel like Jesus. Punished and executed for sins He did not commit, “He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief.”(Isaiah 53:3) Jesus had much more reason than you or I to feel sorry for Himself, but did He? Then, should we?

As Christians, Christ is to be the master of everything we are, not just our words and actions, but our thoughts and feelings as well.

2.
Have the attitude of Christ

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, Philippians 2:5-6

When we follow Christ, we adopt the same attitude towards others He had. Jesus was prepared for the fact that people He loved and served, even those closest to Him, would let Him down. Still, He loved them and forgave them. Your husband is a broken, sinful human being (just like you). He’s going to mess up. A lot (just like you). Being prepared for, and accepting that fact (along with a healthy understanding of how many times you’re going to let him down) can help put things into perspective.

but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. Philippians 2:7

Jesus put aside all of His rights to be served and esteemed and, instead, focused on serving others – even those who didn’t deserve it and were ungrateful. Instead of retreating into hurt the next time your husband blows it, what if you took a deep breath, put your rights aside, and did something to lovingly serve him?

Instead of retreating into hurt the next time your husband blows it, what if you took a deep breath, put your rights aside, and did something to lovingly serve him?

And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Philippians 2:8

Jesus humbled Himself. He was so focused on obedience to God that He gladly gave up His life for people who hated Him. Often, our obedience only takes us to the edge of where we’re comfortable. What kind of impact would it have on your marriage if you had the same level of humility and obedience Christ had? How could that humility and obedience to Christ help ward off self pity?

Often, our obedience only takes us to the edge of where we’re comfortable. What kind of impact would it have on your marriage if you had the same level of humility and obedience Christ had?

3.
Give thanks

give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 1 Thessalonians 5:18

It is not God’s will for you to feel sorry for yourself. It is God’s will for you to give thanks in all circumstances, including a lousy day in your marriage. If you can’t think of anything to be thankful for, tell that to God, and ask Him to show you things about your husband that you can thank Him for. Even if you have to start with the small things (Does he have good breath? Tie his shoes neatly? Floss semi-weekly?), start somewhere. You’ll be amazed at the way your perspective shifts from the negative to the positive as you thank God for your husband’s good qualities.

You’ll be amazed at the way your perspective shifts from the negative to the positive as you thank God for your husband’s good qualities.

4.
Be content

Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. Philippians 4:11

Whatever situation. Ever read about Paul’s little “whatever situations”? You can find some of them in 2 Corinthians 11:23-28. I’m guessing you’ve never been shipwrecked or stoned, not to mention all the other things on his list, which, by the way, Paul wrote while he was in prison. Yet he said he had learned to be content. How? Paul found his contentment, not in his circumstances, but in Christ. Jerry McGuire not witstanding, your husband does not, will not, and cannot “complete you.” Only Christ can satisfy the deepest needs of your heart. When you lay hold of that, you will find true contentment. Your husband will let you down. Christ never will.

Your husband does not, will not, and cannot “complete you.” Only Christ can satisfy the deepest needs of your heart. Your husband will let you down. Christ never will.

5.
Rejoice in suffering

Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. Romans 5:2-4

God wants to do something greater in you than just make you feel better in the moment. He has long range plans to grow you in endurance, character, and hope. That’s great news, and certainly cause for joy. So instead of directing your gaze inward, look down the road to where you’re more mature in Christ, and rejoice. God is at work on your heart. (And P.S.- Rejoicing will make you feel better in the moment, too. Pitying yourself will only make you feel worse.)

God wants to do something greater in you than just make you feel better in the moment.

6.
Put yourself aside and put your husband first

Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Philippians 2:3-4

There’s that H-word again. Humility. When I read this passage, I think back to the story of Jesus washing the disciples’ feet. The One to whom every knee will one day bow got down on His hands and knees and took on the disgusting task that normally fell to the lowest, least talented servant. If the God of the universe could put ahead of Himself these men whom He personally knit together in the womb, who would, in mere hours, deny and desert Him at the darkest time of His life, is He asking too much of us to put our husbands ahead of our hurt feelings?

7.
Change your husband by changing your behavior

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 1 Peter 3:1-2

It seems counterintuitive. “Is your husband being an ungodly jerk? Don’t nag him or pout about it; submit to him with respectful and pure conduct.” The world would call this weakness and say you’re being a doormat. Quite the contrary. If you’ve ever tried putting this passage into practice, you know just how much strength it takes to do the godly thing when everything in you wants to strike back or retreat in self pity. To realize that, regardless of how your husband acts, you are responsible to God to do what is right in His eyes. But God’s word is full of paradoxes and counterintuitives. The question is, do we believe God when He says this is the way to win our husbands to godliness, and do we trust Him enough to obey His word?

Regardless of how your husband acts, you are responsible to God to do what is right in His eyes.

Being a Christian wife pursuing growth in godliness is tough. It can seem impossible to forge ahead in obedience to Christ on those difficult days in your marriage when all you really want to do is retreat into that corner and whimper. But you have a Savior who understands your weaknesses,  loves and cares for you deeply,  and promises to give you the strength you need to do anything He calls you to.

Even the strength to take off the hat, sweep up the confetti, and say, “The party’s over.”

This article was originally published at Satisfaction Through Christ on November 5, 2014.

Christian women, Men

Feminist Infiltration and the Emasculation of Christian Men

Michelle Lesley

I hate radical secular feminism. I really do. Don’t get me wrong, I deeply appreciate the right to vote and own property. I think that men and women with the same amount of experience and education should be paid the same amount of money for doing the same job. And, I love seeing women study and develop their minds (particularly in the area of sound biblical doctrine.)

But what I don’t like is some of the methods that have been employed to achieve these things, the biblical values that have been sacrificed along the way, and the emasculating impact feminism has had on men.

Turn on any television show, watch a commercial, go to the movies, read the news, scroll through your social media feed, and examine the way men are generally viewed, spoken of, and being treated by others.

If a female character on a TV show slaps her husband or punches him in the arm, we laugh or sympathize with her anger, depending on the scenario, but if the roles were reversed we’d call the same behavior from a man abuse.

Men are frequently portrayed as bumbling incompetents as fathers, husbands, and employees, with a heroine mom, wife, or co-worker stepping in to save the day.

We see women wearing the pants in the family and treating their husbands like an extra child, and we see men who respond in kind: acting like children, obeying their wives’ commands, and, often, indulging in hours of childish pastimes, like video games, instead of working hard and caring for their families.

It’s not Father Knows Best anymore. It’s Father’s a Moronic Buffoon to Kick Around.

It’s not “Father Knows Best” anymore. It’s “Father’s a Moronic Buffoon to Kick Around”. And what’s alarming is that these attitudes have been creeping into the church for years.

And what’s alarming is that these attitudes have been creeping into the church for years.

Just as women rebelled against the law and social conventions to gain equality with men, “Christian” women now rebel against Scripture by becoming pastors and instructing and holding authority over men in the church. (In fact, this has been going on so long that many in the next generation aren’t even aware that the Bible prohibits this.)

Just as men in secular society have stepped back to avoid being run over by headstrong women, or even joined them in their quest for female dominance, evangelical men have abdicated their God-given positions of leadership in the church and home, sometimes even joining women in their violation of Scripture by inviting them into unbiblical positions of leadership and by sitting under their teaching and preaching.

Those are the things that are overt and visible. But it’s happening on a more subtle level, too, even among complementarian men, women, and churches.

Have you ever heard a man attempt to praise his wife by saying, “I married up,” or “way up,” or “way over my head,” and then proceed to describe himself as, basically, a bucket of slime in comparison to his wife? Most of the men I’ve heard say this have been good, godly men, including my husband, who has made similar remarks in the past.

Have you ever heard a man attempt to praise his wife by saying, “I married up,” or “way up,” or “way over my head,” and then proceed to describe himself as, basically, a bucket of slime in comparison to his wife?

I don’t know about the rest of you ladies, but I don’t want to hear anyone putting my husband (or any of my godly male friends) down, even my husband himself. The truth is, for believers, the cross is the great equalizer. We all marry equally up and equally down, because we are all redeemed, yet broken, sinful human beings- simultaneously saint and sinner.

The cross is the great equalizer. We all marry equally up and equally down, because we are all redeemed, yet broken, sinful human beings- simultaneously saint and sinner.

And what about things like this?

There are some really great messages in this video:

Being a mom can be tough, and husbands should appreciate all the hard work their wives do as mothers.

God wired women differently from men in a way that uniquely equips us for motherhood, and these differences are good and should be valued.

Dads need to step in and give moms a break every now and then.

It’s just supposed to be a lighthearted “moms are precious” video. I get that. But how are the makers of the video achieving the “lighthearted” part? By portraying dads as silly and hapless.

Where are we getting this idea that men have to be torn down in order to build women up? Not from the Bible, but from secular feminism. That’s their modus operandi, not God’s.

Where are we getting this idea that men have to be torn down in order to build women up? Not from the Bible, but from secular feminism.

We always look at Proverbs 31:10-31 with regard to what it says about excellent wives, but have you ever noticed what it says about husbands?

The heart of her husband trusts in her,
and he will have no lack of gain.
She does him good, and not harm…

Her husband is known in the gates
when he sits among the elders of the land…

Her children rise up and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
“Many women have done excellently,
but you surpass them all.”
11-12a, 23, 28-29

We always look at Proverbs 31:10-31 with regard to what it says about excellent wives, but have you ever noticed what it says about husbands?

Here, in the quintessential passage praising godly wives, do we see a silly cartoon character of a husband? Do we see a husband being belittled so his wife can look good? No. We see a godly wife who does her husband good and inspires and encourages him to go out and conquer the world. We see a respectable man with a good reputation. And, we see a man who trusts, appreciates, and praises his wife without a hint of self deprecation.

The world’s way is that for women to be winners, men must lose. God’s way is iron sharpens iron. When wives are godly, it influences their husbands to be godly, and vice versa. When women fulfill the roles God has ordained for them at church, it frees and encourages men to be the leaders God has called them to be. We build each other up without tearing ourselves down. Nobody has to lose in order for somebody else to win. Godliness is truly a win-win situation.

The world’s way? For women to win, men must lose. God’s way is “iron sharpens iron”. We build each other up without tearing ourselves down. Nobody has to lose in order for somebody else to win. Godliness is truly a win-win situation.

Godly women are important, specially crafted by God for our roles, and worthy of honor and respect. But so are godly men. Let’s be sure, in the family and in the church, that we’re taking our cues from Scripture, not the world, when it comes to valuing women and men.

Complementarianism

Fencing Off the Forbidden Fruit Tree

Michelle Lesley

Often, with regard to 1 Timothy 2:12, husbands and pastors will reassure a woman that it’s OK for her to teach that co-ed Sunday School class or step into a church leadership role reserved for men because she’ll be doing so “under his [husband’s or pastor’s] authority.”

But is that biblical?

When God tells us (in context, rightly handled, of course) not to do something and we do it anyway, that is sin. Only God has the authority to say what is sin and what is not. No one – not your pastor, your husband, your parents, your best friend, the Pope, nobody – has the authority to tell you that it’s OK to do something God has said is sin. That authority belongs to God alone.

Try inserting any other sin into that situation. Does your husband, pastor, or anyone else have the authority to tell you it’s OK to lie? Cuss? Covet? Of course not. And why would they even consider doing such a thing?

My point exactly.

The issue here is that this particular sin (teaching/exercising authority over men) has become so acceptable in the church that we no longer even see it as sin. If your husband or pastor gave you the go ahead to preach to or teach men in the gathered assembly of the church body, and you were to ask him to show you in Scripture where God says it’s OK for him to allow you to do that, he would quickly realize that he is not basing his decision on Scripture (because there is no Scripture that allows him to give you that permission), but on his own personal opinion that it’s OK. And that opinion has been heavily influenced by the fact that this sin is now so widely acceptable in the church at large.

Beth Moore is a perfect example of why husbands and pastors should not allow or encourage women to violate God’s word by teaching men. Beth Moore started out teaching a women’s Sunday school class in her home church. It grew. Men wanted to attend the class (a problem I’ve addressed here). She was hesitant, so she talked to her husband and pastor about it. They both told her it was OK because she would be teaching the men “under their authority” (despite the fact that there’s no passage of Scripture that allows them to say that or gives them the right to lay some sort of “mantle of authority” on her) That initial compromise led to another and another. Fast forward to today, and this is still the argument Beth Moore – in all of her false doctrinal glory – uses for preaching to men if she bothers to defend herself at all. And she has influenced thousands of women (and their husbands and pastors) to do the same.

But it doesn’t matter how sound our doctrine is, when women stand in front of co-ed groups and teach (or accept positions of authority over men in the church) we are teaching more than just what’s coming out of our mouths. We’re teaching that group of people by example that it’s OK for women to teach men. That God’s Word can be ignored and disobeyed in this area while we stand there urging them to obey it in other areas. How can a woman exhort a group to obey God while she is standing there disobeying Him herself?

It’s my prayer that we’ll begin to see more husbands and pastors uphold God’s Word and protect their wives and female church members from sinning by encouraging them to fulfill all of the wonderful roles God has for women in the church and by fencing off that one tree in the garden that bears the forbidden fruit of teaching and exercising authority over men.

Adapted from a Facebook mini-blog.

Additional Resources:

Rock Your Role

Rock Your Role: Jill in the Pulpit

Rock Your Role FAQs

The Mailbag: Counter Arguments to Egalitarianism

The Mother of All Rebellions: Having a Woman Preach on Mother’s Day

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Women evangelizing men & women teaching at co-ed conferences

Michelle Lesley

mailbag

When it comes to 1 Timothy 2:12, what about women preaching or teaching the Bible at co-ed Christian conferences, campus ministries, youth ministries, or parachurch ministries? Is that OK since they’re not preaching and teaching “in the church”?

Here, we need to remember what the definition of “church” is. The church is not a building, it is a body of born again believers gathered for the purpose of worship, prayer, the sacraments, and/or the study of God’s word. Those things can take place in a church building, a home (as with the first century churches in Acts), in a campus or office building, outdoors, in a conference center, in a sports arena, or anywhere else. So, when a body of believers comes together for these purposes, regardless of the building in which they meet, or whether you call it “church” or not, they are the church, and the biblical parameters about women teaching and holding authority over men applies.

What about evangelism? Can women share the gospel with men at work, among friends and family, at the store, through an outreach ministry?

Women not only can share the gospel at every opportunity, the Great Commission mandates it for every Christian. However, it is important for godly women to use caution and wisdom when interacting with men in any situation, especially one that can turn out to be very personal and emotionally intimate, as with witnessing.

My counsel would be that you’re generally OK if you’re in a public place and it’s a one time encounter (for example, witnessing to a stranger at the store). However, if we’re talking about multiple encounters – for example, a male friend or co-worker who wants to continue meeting with you over time to talk about the gospel – it might be best to meet with him a couple of times (in a public area) and then “hand him off” to your husband, pastor, elder, brother, friend, etc., for further discussion.

There are several reasons for this.

It protects your reputation. If people see you meeting with a man on an ongoing basis (especially of one or both of you are married) they can jump to the wrong conclusion, and your reputation, and Christ’s, can be sullied.

It protects your virtue. Unfortunately, some men, who have no interest in the gospel, might see your eagerness to meet with them as an opportunity to take advantage of you.

It protects both of you from temptation. A personal relationship with Christ is exactly that- personal. Discussing sin, conviction, and other matters related to salvation can lead to emotional intimacy, which can then lead to physical intimacy. You don’t want what started as a witnessing encounter to end up as sin.

When it comes to outreach ministries (for example, a meal for the homeless, followed by a group gospel presentation or Bible lesson), it’s best for a man to lead co-ed (or male only) adult groups in anything that could be construed as preaching or teaching the Bible. Not because this is in the church setting and the situation falls directly under the parameters of 1 Timothy 2:12, but because…

…there are a lot of highly visible female preachers (Joyce Meyer, Paula White, Gloria Copeland, Christine Caine, etc.) out there, all of whom are in disobedience to 1 Timothy 2:12 and teach false doctrine (usually Word of Faith/New Apostolic Reformation).

The Bible says we’re to avoid even the appearance of evil, and you don’t want to appear to be one of those women if it’s avoidable. Having a man lead the teaching helps distance you and your church from those types of sinful women and their bad theology, and sets a godly example for the people you’re ministering to.

…the Great Commission is clear that we’re not just to make converts, we’re to make disciples. That means the ultimate goal of evangelism is to get the newly saved person plugged in to a local, biblical church. Why confuse a new Christian by having women lead out “in the field” when it’s not going to be that way in the church?

…there are very few examples in the world of what it really means to be a man. Men are constantly emasculated on TV and in society and receive all kinds of conflicting messages regarding what real manhood is. What an impact on lost men (and women) to see an example of a godly, masculine man who leads well, fulfills his duties and responsibilities, and is totally sold out to Christ. If you have someone like that, why wouldn’t you want him to lead?

For more questions and answers about women’s roles in the church, please see my article Rock Your Role FAQs. I’ve added both of these questions to that article.

If you have a question about: a well known Christian author/leader, a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.