Testimony Tuesday

Testimony Tuesday: Karen’s Story

Karen’s Story

From the Pulpit to Repentance

Several have asked me to share my journey from the pulpit to repentance. Ten years ago, my husband and I were Charismatic ministers. We served together as Associate Pastors of a church in Texas. I was on the preaching schedule with the men, monthly. Yes, I got the accolades and approval of the church, and the association we were involved with until…. The grace of God reached down and pulled my husband and me both back to the Word of God and out of the fire.

Here is a snapshot of the journey, our journey. It is hard to share. In fact, I have shared our story with select few. Sure, this will bring fiery darts my way, but I really couldn’t care less. I trust that this will help open the eyes of those seeking Truth.

I met my husband in an evangelical church, he was a youth pastor at the time. Both of us were from very Biblically based churches. My husband was the son of a Baptist minister. As a student at Biola College, I remember the warning given to the students by my professor, Dr. Curtis Mitchell, against tongues and the unbiblical Charismatic movement. Truth is, I was curious as most college age young people. I found myself wondering if Dr. Mitchell knew what he was talking about.

I met my husband my sophomore year of Biola. He had a full time job and was a youth pastor. He had a ministry to teens and the kids loved him. He was everything that I prayed and asked God for. We were married one year after we met. I wish I could say we lived happily ever after. When you are on God’s team, attacks come, and they are very real. As a young couple, we found ourselves in two churches, both with serious issues.

After one year of marriage, he was offered a position as a youth pastor at the beach, one block from the ocean. It was an awesome church where we were both very happy. The youth group was growing, kids’ lives were being changed, and parents were grateful. All was well until . . . the senior pastor asked a friend of his to become the Associate Pastor. The new staff member immediately began to breed distrust between the staff. He had an agenda, to bring a copy of the Satan bible into the youth group and have the kids read it. We found ourselves in a spiritual battle that we had never anticipated. We did not want to cause a church split so my husband resigned. (We found out later that this man had a history of going from church to church and causing splits!)

Another local Baptist church contacted my husband. His youth pastor was being transferred by his full-time job, and Phil was asked to step in.

Things were going well at the new church. The youth group was thriving. Nine months in to the job, the senior pastor was asked to resign, the music director’s wife divorced him, and then the music director committed suicide. Upset, discouraged, angry at God were only some of my emotions. I wanted to quit the ministry. We both were so discouraged. It was at that point that Phil decided that he was through with the ministry. We were done!

The last two churches had taken their toll on us. We hardly read the Bible, only attended church. Our marriage was having issues and another baby was on the way. We were trying to keep ourselves together, no one knew the depth of our pain and discouragement. Looking back, I can see clearly that what happened to us was a direct attack from the enemy.

In the midst of the pain, I knew that the God was the answer. Not wanting anything more to do with the traditional church, I gravitated towards the popular charismatic movement. Some of my family had gone that direction, they seemed happy – so I thought maybe that’s what we needed.

Looking back. I now see now that it was all a trap. The discouragement with the church, the hurt, thinking that God let us down . . . we were slowly being destroyed. I got into the Charismatic movement first. I started by going to meetings, listening to TBN, talking to my family. Phil tried to warn me but being hard headed, stubborn and thinking I knew more than he did (he wasn’t reading his Bible so what could he say to me????) I took the bait and had my first experience. I say “experience” because everything seemed to be an experience from that point on. To be truthful, I did feel happier, read my Bible, (substituted the KJV with the Amplified version), and was nicer to live with. He decided that because I had made some positive changes that maybe I was on to something. He jumped in with me and we started attending a Charismatic fellowship. Please note as I write from this point on, the progression . . .

Discouragement, mad at God, feeling empty, Charismatic appeals, we take the bait.

At no time did we consult God’s Word on any of the teaching we were hearing. The Bible was used in the sermons with enough truth that we bought into the lie.

We moved our family to Tulsa. Phil enrolled in Rhema but half way through the first year, he left school. We look back and see the grace of God even in that situation. In the meantime, we had become friends with another couple and she and I were convinced we were supposed to be ministers. Women ministers were all the rage, and all were serving with their husbands, so why not us? We all continued in the Word of Faith churches in Tulsa, voraciously reading every book, attending meetings. At one point, we all decided to be ordained. After applying and being interviewed, we were ordained along with many other couples.

We found a church that was growing and we got involved. We thought we could use our “ministry gifts” there. We did become leaders in the church. I led a woman’s group and together we did a weekly care group in our home. We were being destroyed emotionally as the church was spiritually abusive. It was taking its toll on everyone, including our kids. We both began to see how the Word of God was being twisted from the pulpit to say things that were not there and there was no demonstration of the love of God.

One morning, while having my quiet time, I read an article about spiritually abusive churches and the signs of a toxic, abusive environment. Everything I read we were experiencing. It was clear that we had to leave.

I went to my husband with tears streaming down my face and shared what I believed God was saying. I trusted him to make a family decision. It was the next Sunday that the pastor stood up and said to the congregation, “If you are called to this church, you are called to me.” Walking out, my husband looked at me and said, “We are done.” We quit the fellowship with a resignation letter and never looked back.

A job change was in the air. We both got jobs in Dallas, TX. We left Oklahoma and never looked back. Our daughter moved to Seattle and within a few years, our son did the same. We were all out of Oklahoma!

After a couple of years, we decided to go back to church but did not know where to go. Someone had invited us to attend a little Charismatic start up church and we went. We fell in love with the Filipino pastor and his dear wife. We started going and helping them. The pastor invited us to be on staff and he submitted papers for our ministerial license. (We had rescinded our other ministry certificates years earlier). We became co-associate pastors. We loved the people and we both preached one Sunday a month. Phil and I had begun our personal studies at home, using the KJV Bible. We studied the Emergent Church and saw how it was infiltrating the organization. We read John MacArthur’s book, Charismatic Chaos, and scales began to fall from our eyes. Everything that John MacArthur wrote in his book was 100% accurate. We had experienced it first hand and had lived it.

When I saw that I had not held to the faith that was once delivered to the saints, tears of repentance gushed. I cried for weeks. I had wronged the Lord. I had been duped, taken the bait of Satan, and strayed way off the track. Phil had his own similar moment with the Lord. The beautiful part of this testimony is that each of us came to the same place at the same time using the same Bible. God, in his grace, had snatched us out of the fire. We now had a decision to make. We then drafted a letter of resignation to the organization and walked away.

We were done. We had each other, we had God’s Word. We had already walked away from Word of Faith in Tulsa, and now we walked away from everything Charismatic. The circle was complete. We went into Babylon but God brought us out. We found a Biblical church where women are in their place. I have never looked back.

If you are reading this, I plead with you to think Bible, read your Bible, stop listening to Charismatic/Word of faith/Emergent church and women preachers. We tossed books, tapes, cd’s, Bibles. Our library was quite large. Yes, we tossed our huge library in the trash.

Today we stand on God’s Word. I don’t need to preach to be fulfilled. God has given me a national platform in a dental organization. I influence women all over the country and as God gives opportunity, I share his grace. I found my place in Christ, in my marriage, and in my church. I am 100% fulfilled being the person God has called me to be.

Today I stand heart- broken as I look across Christianity and see the deception. With tears, I am humbled and grateful for God’s grace, His forgiveness, His love, and the Truth of His Word.

We have come full circle – back to the Bible and the roots we were raised with. I pray that you too will find the Truth. Seek and Ye shall find. Here is a clue . . . Truth is in God’s Word!


Ladies, God is still at work in the hearts and lives of His people, including yours! Would you like to share a testimony of how God saved you, how He has blessed you, convicted you, taught you something from His Word, brought you out from under false doctrine, placed you in a good church or done something otherwise awesome in your life? Private/direct message me on social media, e-mail me (MichelleLesley1@yahoo.com), or comment below. Your testimony can be as brief as a few sentences or as long as 1500 words. Let’s encourage one another with God’s work in our lives!

Christian women, Church, Complementarianism, Men

Throwback Thursday ~ Adam 3.0: Meanwhile, Back in the Garden, It’s Deja Vu All Over Again

Originally published June 26, 2014Adam 3.0

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
1 Timothy 2:12-14

Because it’s my passion to see Christian women become holy, passionate, obedient disciples of Jesus Christ, I’ve dealt with this passage a lot and done a lot of research on it. Scripture is crystal clear that women are not to instruct men in the Scriptures in the church in the capacity of pastor or teacher, nor are they to hold authority over men in other positions in the church. (I’ve outlined Scripture’s case for this here if you’d like to do some further study.) And, unfortunately, there are many women in the church who are disobeying this Scripture (I used to be one of them)– some out of rebellion, and some out of ignorance. But until recently, I –and every other piece of information I’ve studied on the subject– have dealt with the issue of women stepping outside their God-ordained role in the church strictly as a women’s issue.

A few days ago, a friend of mine asked for my opinion on a Q&A video produced by a well known pastor. The pastor was asked, “Is it a sin for men to listen to women speakers [female Christian conference speakers, pastors, teachers, etc.]?”

And that’s when it hit me. I’d never heard this question addressed, or even asked, before. First Timothy 2:12ff is always dealt with from the perspective of women and towards women, that this is a women’s sin issue.

But to treat this role rebellion strictly as the sin of women is to pour gasoline on the fire. If it’s a singularly women’s problem, then it naturally falls on women with a right understanding of God’s word on the issue to deal with it, right? And if these women are the ones who have to confront and deal with this sin, even at the local church level, they’re being placed smack dab in the misappropriated role they’re trying to fight because they’re being asked to do the job of elders and pastors whose responsibility it is to maintain order and discipline in the church.

In other words, my Christian brothers, it’s not your discerning sisters’ job to handle this sin of role busting in the church. It’s yours.

The fact that there’s even a need for an article like this, never mind that a woman is writing it, is indicative of the pervasiveness of the problem. Why haven’t I heard any pastors or other Christian men exhorting men in the church to stand on God’s word, properly fill out their own role in the church, and also deal with the problem of female disobedience to this Scripture? Why are Christian men becoming accomplices to women’s sin by seeking out female pastors and teachers to be their spiritual leaders? I believe there are three reasons:

1. Adam 3.0
Give Genesis 3–the story of the Fall–a read through the lenses of 1 Timothy 2:12. See any similarities between what happened in the Garden and what’s happening in the church?

The man is off somewhere, not fulfilling his role of spiritual guardian, leader, and protector, leaving the woman alone and vulnerable to Satan’s attack. Satan tempts the woman to sin and she succumbs. The woman then entices the man to sin, and instead of standing on God’s word, refusing to sin, and correcting her, he actually joins her in her sin. And when God calls the man to account for this whole scenario, what does the man do? He blames the woman.

Was Eve responsible for her decision to sin? Of course. That’s why we even have 1 Timothy 2:12-14 in the Bible. But God gave the man the authority and God held the man ultimately responsible. That’s why we see passages like Romans 5:12-14 (and others) attributing the sin in the Garden to Adam rather than Eve.

While there are many faithful pastors and Christian men out there diligently laboring to be godly teachers and leaders in the church–and praise God for those men!–there is a large and increasing number of men in our churches, both pastors and laymen, who are failing to fulfill the role God has called men to in the church. Pastors who will only preach what tickles people’s ears. Men who sit in the pews refusing to teach or serve or lead or even attend faithfully.

As it was in the Garden, the Christian men are nowhere to be found as Satan creeps into the church and attacks women with this temptation. And, as God called out then, could He be calling out now, “אָדָם, – Adam- Man, where are you“?

2. Men are lazy.
I know that sounds harsh, but, guys, before you get your boxers in a bunch, please hear what I’m not saying. I’m not saying that all men are lazy or that women are never lazy or that men are lazy in every aspect of their lives. What I’m saying is that, in this particular instance of women stepping outside God’s role for them in the church, too many men are sitting back with the attitude that, hey, if somebody else is willing to do the work why not let her? Instead, women (not to mention boys and younger men) should be seeing men in the church step up and say, “I’ll study hard so I’ll be equipped to teach that class.” “I’ll preach the sermon, not my wife.” “I’ll be willing to shoulder the load God has given me instead of pushing it off on a woman.”

3. Men are afraid of women. 
Not afraid of them physically, but afraid of the ones who will make a scene, cause strife, split churches, get pastors fired, and generally make life hell on earth for anyone who dares to put his foot down firmly on the word of God and say, “You’re in disobedience. You need to repent and step down.” I know these women (and, of course, there are men who do this, too). I have had plenty of them come after me, and, having a husband who’s been in ministry for over 20 years, I’ve seen plenty of them attack pastors, staff, deacons, etc., and I don’t blame men for feeling scared. But men, Jesus has called you to defend His Bride from all enemies, both foreign and domestic, and feeling scared doesn’t excuse you from doing what’s right and biblical. Look to the courage Jesus exhibited on His way to the cross. Look at Peter, Paul, James, and the other apostles as your example of valor as they chose flogging, hardship, jail, and martyrdom over compromising the word of God.

And a special word of encouragement to pastors: your church doesn’t need someone who’s afraid to rock the boat, even if that’s what they want, and even if your job is on the line. It needs a man who will stand for Christ, no matter the cost to him personally or vocationally. You can’t call your people to do that in their own lives if you aren’t willing to do it in yours. The God who was strong enough to save you out of the pit of hell is strong enough to find you another job and provide for your family. Be faithful to preach and carry out the word in season and out of season. You can do it. Trust Christ. He’s got you.

 

God has given women a phenomenal, and much needed, role in the church. He has given men a different, yet equally phenomenal and much needed role in the church. For the local church to function in a healthy way, both men and women have to fill out our own roles correctly. And, guys, we ladies can’t and shouldn’t have to do your job in addition to ours.

I realize this is a more stringent tone than I usually take. Peter, Paul and the other apostles probably raised some eyebrows when they used a stringent tone, too. But when a house is burning down, the fireman doesn’t tiptoe in, hand you flowers, and politely request that you, pretty please, come with him. And that’s where we are in the church. The house is burning down around us. And, in the end, this article is not meant to be a castigation of pastors or other Christian men, but an impassioned plea from a church lady who wants to see her sisters make it out alive.

Help us. Please. Be the heroic men of God that you have the right, the calling, and the responsibility to be. Because, despite what some of the women of your church might say, that’s what we, and the body of Christ, so desperately need.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Female Pastors- False Teachers or Just Sinning?

 

Is a woman who is in the position of pastor to be considered a false teacher or merely disobedient to The Word of God? Some churches in my area place pastors’ wives in the position of “co-pastor.” Would she have to be teaching some false doctrine to be considered a false teacher or does the fact that she is in the position in the first place make her a false teacher?

I love it when I hear from women – like the reader who sent in this question – who are thinking deeply and seriously about the things of God. It brings me so much joy to see God working in the hearts and minds of Christian women.

Before we start parsing these ideas out, let’s bottom line this thing. Scripture is both explicitly and implicitly clear that women are not to serve as pastors. Regardless of whether we call what she’s doing sin or false teaching, it is definitely unbiblical for a church to install a woman in the position of pastor, and for the woman to accept the position. So the bottom line is, it’s wrong and nobody should be attending such a church.

Now, onward and upward with the parsing…

The term “false teacher” is generally reserved for people (male or female) who actually teach – via speaking or writing – false doctrine. So if you if you want to get technical about it, if the woman in question simply holds the position of pastor but either does not preach/teach at all or does not preach/teach any sort of false doctrine, she, and the church that installed her, are simply sinning.

But there are a few more things to consider here:

♦ I’m familiar with various churches and denominations (none of which teach sound doctrine, including the specific ones the reader mentioned in her original e-mail) where a husband and wife serve as “co-pastors,” but I’ve never seen one in which the wife doesn’t preach/teach at all. It may not be often, but preaching is seen as part of her duties, otherwise, why would she be considered a co-pastor? (I suppose there could be churches where “co-pastor” is merely an honorific for the pastor’s wife, it’s just that I’ve never seen one.)

♦ Assuming preaching is one of her duties, I find it very difficult to imagine a woman who: sees nothing wrong with female pastors, is married to and pastored by a man who sees nothing wrong with female pastors, and attends a doctrinally unsound church that sees nothing wrong with female pastors, would get up in the pulpit and preach sound doctrine. Again, I suppose it could happen in theory, but how likely is it?

♦ As I’ve mentioned in previous articles, women teaching men and women teaching false doctrine are highly correlated. I have researched scores of women teachers. Every single one of them who unrepentantly teaches men also teaches false doctrine in some other aspect of her theology (usually Word of Faith or New Apostolic Reformation). In other words, if a woman teaches men, you can just about take it to the bank that she also teaches false doctrine.

♦ Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that this woman gets up and preaches sound doctrine every time she’s in the pulpit. So what? She’s still sinning by preaching to men, regardless of the content of her “sermon.” I have known of Reformed male pastors who preach perfectly sound doctrine, yet litter their sermons with foul language. I’ve known of other pastors who delivered biblical sermons every Sunday, but were sleeping with women in their congregations or were addicted to pornography or were molesting their own children. The point is- sound doctrine is not the only qualification for pastors. There are a number of observable and behavioral requirements for pastors listed in 1 Timothy and Titus – one of which is being a man – and violation of any of these requirements disqualifies a person from the role of pastor.

♦ While, technically, we would not label a female pastor a false teacher unless she’s overtly teaching false doctrine, the fact remains that she is teaching something unbiblical every time she stands in the pulpit. She is teaching, via her behavior, that it’s OK for her, her church, the church at large, the women of her congregation, and Christian women everywhere, to live in open rebellion against this portion of Scripture. Any pastor who, by his (her) own behavior, leads people to believe it is OK to ignore or rebel against God’s word has disqualified himself (herself) from the office of pastor.


If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Rock Your Role

Rock Your Role FAQs

RYR FAQs

Rock Your Role is my series examining the “go to” and hot button Scriptures that relate to and help us understand our role as women in the church. The articles have garnered a lot of great questions from readers. I’ve been extremely encouraged to hear from so many women who love the Lord and want to obey Him. So, I thought it might be handy to have all of the questions and my answers¹, in one place.

1. Is a man violating Scripture if he seeks out or voluntarily sits under the teaching or preaching of a female Bible teacher or “pastor”?

Yes. Read more about that here.


2. Is there ever a time when it’s OK for a man to be in the room while a woman is teaching the Bible to other women?

Yes. There are some biblically legitimate reasons for a man to be in the room while a woman is teaching the Bible to other women. For example, if my pastor, an elder, or even my husband wanted to sit in on a Bible study I’m teaching to make sure I’m handling God’s word correctly and not teaching false doctrine to the women of the church, I would welcome that, and it would be perfectly biblical (frankly, more pastors, elders, and husbands should do just that). Likewise, it would be fine for a husband or father to sit in temporarily and check me out for his wife or daughter. Other scenarios might include a male reporter covering me or the class (I can’t imagine why anyone would, but…) or a male videographer recording the class.


3. What about Christian women bloggers and authors? Aren’t they teaching men if men read their writings?

The short answer is no. Click here for the long answer.


4. If I’m a member of a co-ed Bible study or Sunday School class led by a man, is it “teaching” the men in the class if I ask or answer a question, make a comment, or participate in the discussion?

No, assuming that this is a Q&A type of class in which discussion is encouraged (speaking out during a lecture-style class isn’t “teaching” either, its just disruptive and rude and would fall more under the 1 Corinthians 14 principle of being quiet so people can hear the pastor or teacher).

Asking and answering questions, making brief, appropriate comments, or participating in class discussion is not teaching any more than it would be if you were in a science or math class. The teacher is the one in the position of authority. He is supposed to be knowledgeable enough about what he’s teaching to guide the discussion and affirm insightful comments or correct misinformed comments. He is also in control of class logistics (for example, when to cut off discussion and return to teaching). In summary, the teacher is in charge, not you, and you are asking questions, commenting, and discussing under the umbrella of his authority and control.

If, however, a woman goes beyond simply asking or answering a question or commenting, essentially takes over the class, and begins lecturing everybody, that would be inappropriate.


5. What if I’m in a co-ed Bible study or Sunday School class taught by a man, and either the teacher or one of the male members of the class says something that’s in error, biblically? Should I speak out?

It really depends on the situation. Ideally, if a male member of the class makes an erroneous comment, the teacher should know the Bible well enough to correct him, or, at the very least, one of the other men in the class should do so. Likewise, if the teacher says something biblically off, the best case scenario would be for one of the men in the class to correct him (if you’re married, let your husband take the lead if he is with you and able to do so). If not, there are several factors to consider before jumping in with a corrective:

a) Are you sure you heard him correctly?

b) Is it possible he made a slip of the tongue and actually meant to say the right thing?

c) Does the majority of the class understand what he meant even if he accidentally chose the wrong word (for example, accidentally saying “Elisha” when the text is clearly about Elijah)?

d) Does this need to be corrected now so others won’t believe false doctrine, or is it something that you (or your husband) could talk to him about after class (think Aquila, Priscilla, and Apollos)?

If the male teacher or class member says something incorrectly that’s unimportant, its best to just let it go. But if he says something completely unbiblical (and its not a slip of the tongue or a misunderstanding), nobody else is speaking up, and it can’t wait for a private discussion after class because it might lead others astray, then, yes, a correcting comment made gently, with a humble spirit, and backed up by Scripture is absolutely appropriate. A great way to seek or offer clarification in a way that’s not undermining or usurping the teacher is to ask a question rather than make a statement.


6. Is it OK for women to teach at Christian middle schools, high schools, or colleges?

Of course. A school, even a Christian school, is not a church. The biblical prohibition is against women teaching men the Scriptures, and applies to the gathering of the church. However, I believe it is most in keeping with the spirit of Scripture for a man to teach (co-ed) Bible classes starting around the middle school level. And, since chapel is a worship service, it should be led by a biblically qualified man.


7. What about women preaching or teaching the Bible (to Christians) at a Bible study in someone’s home, the workplace, a coffee shop, etc., at co-ed Christian conferences, campus ministries, youth ministries, or parachurch ministries? Is that OK since they’re not preaching and teaching “in the church”? 

Here, we need to remember what the definition of “church” is. The church is not a building, it is a body of born again believers gathered for the purpose of worship, prayer, the ordinances, and/or the study of God’s word. Those things can take place in a church building, a home (as with the first century churches in Acts), in a campus or office building, outdoors, in a conference center, in a sports arena, or anywhere else. So, when a body of believers comes together for these purposes, regardless of the building in which they meet, or whether you call it “church” or not, they are the church, and the biblical parameters about women teaching and holding authority over men applies.

There are occasions when it is perfectly appropriate for a woman to address a co-ed audience at a Christian conference. For example, a woman who’s a computer expert teaching a breakout session on software that can be helpful to the church, or a woman experienced in children’s ministry teaching a session on security screening procedures, background checks, etc., even a situation like a women’s ministry leader addressing a group of pastors to give them insight into the struggles particular to Christian women, false teachers popular among Christian women, or how pastors can help the women in their church. The speaker would merely be handing the pastors a tool they can take back to their churches and implement. It’s akin to a nurse handing a doctor a scalpel during surgery so he can use it to operate. The biblical prohibition is against women instructing men in the Scriptures and exercising authority over men, not sharing their expertise or disseminating information on non-biblical topics. So women should not be preaching or teaching Bible lessons to mixed audiences at conferences, but there are other types of conference teaching and leadership that are perfectly biblical.

Pastor Josh Buice does a wonderful job of implementing this principle at the annual G3 Conference he founded and leads. He explains more about women teaching at conferences (and other issues related to women teaching in the church) in his excellent article Why Women Should Not Teach the Bible to Men.


8. I teach at a Christian high school. My pastor says our school is an extension of the church. Is it OK for me to give a brief devotion and prayer in home room as required by my job description?

Yes. Again, regardless of what church or denominational leaders say about a Christian school being an extension, ministry, or outreach of the church, the fact of the matter is that a Christian school is not the same entity as a church. They are two different entities with two different purposes, parameters, and audiences (I mean, your church doesn’t charge tuition, right? And your school teaches subjects other than the Bible, yes? They’re different.).

The biblical admonition pertains to the church- the body of believers gathered for worship. These students are not gathered for worship, they are gathered for school, and the majority of them are probably not even believers. Additionally, these students are not yet adults, and are under your authority as their teacher in the classroom (similar to parental authority), not as their spiritual leader in a Bible study type of situation.


9. If I’m listening to a female Bible teacher and my husband walks through the room, should I turn off the program so he isn’t “taught” by the woman I’m listening to?

No, that’s not necessary. A man who overhears a female Bible teacher you’re listening to as he’s walking through the room is no more being “taught” than someone who gets a pie in the face is “eating.” He’s likely not even paying attention to it.


10. If I’m teaching a women’s Bible study and a man comes in wanting to join the class, should I stop teaching and ask him to leave? Should I put a sign on the door that says “women only”?

If you feel that a sign on the door would be helpful, then, by all means, post a sign. Usually if you advertise (on fliers, in announcements, etc.) the class as a “women’s Bible study” ahead of time, men get the picture and don’t show up.

If a man comes to your women’s Bible study and he isn’t there for another legitimate reason (such as the ones I mentioned earlier) but has come to the class seeking to be taught the Bible for himself, it would absolutely be appropriate for a female teacher to gently say something when he comes in like, “I’m sorry, but this is a women’s only class. Maybe you were looking for Joe Blow’s class down the hall?” Be kind. These days a lot of men don’t even know it’s unbiblical for a woman to teach men.


11. What about evangelism? Can women share the gospel with men at work, among friends and family, at the store, through an outreach ministry?

Women not only can share the gospel at every opportunity, the Great Commission mandates it for every Christian. However, it is important for godly women to use caution and wisdom when interacting with men in any situation, especially one that can turn out to be very personal and emotionally intimate, as with witnessing.

My counsel would be that you’re generally OK if you’re in a public place and it’s a one time encounter (for example, witnessing to a stranger at the store). However, if we’re talking about multiple encounters – for example, a male friend or co-worker who wants to continue meeting with you over time to talk about the gospel – it might be best to meet with him a couple of times (in a public area) and then “hand him off” to your husband, pastor, elder, brother, friend, etc., for further discussion.

There are several reasons for this.

It protects your reputation. If people see you meeting with a man on an ongoing basis (especially if one or both of you are married) they can jump to the wrong conclusion, and your reputation, and Christ’s, can be sullied.

It protects your virtue. Unfortunately, some men, who have no interest in the gospel, might see your eagerness to meet with them as an opportunity to take advantage of you.

It protects both of you from temptation. A personal relationship with Christ is exactly that- personal. Discussing sin, conviction, and other matters related to salvation can lead to emotional intimacy, which can then lead to physical intimacy. You don’t want what started as a witnessing encounter to end up as sin.

When it comes to outreach ministries (for example, a meal for the homeless, followed by a group gospel presentation or Bible lesson), it’s best for a man to lead co-ed (or male only) adult groups in anything that could be construed as preaching or teaching the Bible. Not because this is in the church setting and the situation falls directly under the parameters of 1 Timothy 2:12, but because…

…there are a lot of highly visible female preachers (Joyce Meyer, Paula White, Gloria Copeland, Christine Caine, etc.) out there, all of whom are in disobedience to 1 Timothy 2:12 and teach false doctrine (usually Word of Faith/New Apostolic Reformation).

The Bible says we’re to avoid even the appearance of evil, and you don’t want to appear to be one of those women if it’s avoidable. Having a man lead the teaching helps distance you and your church from those types of sinful women and their bad theology, and sets a godly example for the people you’re ministering to.

…the Great Commission is clear that we’re not just to make converts, we’re to make disciples. That means the ultimate goal of evangelism is to get the newly saved person plugged in to a local, biblical church. Why confuse a new Christian by having women lead out “in the field” when it’s not going to be that way in the church?

…there are very few examples in the world of what it really means to be a man. Men are constantly emasculated on TV and in society and receive all kinds of conflicting messages regarding what real manhood is. What an impact on lost men (and women) to see an example of a godly, masculine man who leads well, fulfills his duties and responsibilities, and is totally sold out to Christ. If you have someone like that, why wouldn’t you want him to lead?

Basic Training: The Great Commission

The Mailbag: Is it biblical for women to carry out The Great Commission?

Evangelism at Theology Gals


12. What about teaching my sons the Bible? Should I stop when they are teenagers?

This is a little bit of a different question because now we’re talking about the home instead of the church. We’re also talking about minor children who are under your authority as a parent rather than men or youth in your church who are not under your authority. Additionally, there is no Scripture which clearly addresses a specific age at which a mother should stop formally teaching her sons the Bible.

Ideally, Dad should regularly lead the whole family in Bible study, because the Bible says he is to be the spiritual leader of the home. But if your husband is OK with you also teaching your sons the Bible at another time of day in a way that complements what he’s doing in family worship time, there’s no biblical problem with that.

My husband leads our family worship, but I also teach my teenage sons a chapter of the Bible every morning before we start school. My husband is fine with that because it goes hand in hand with what he’s doing as our spiritual leader.

My counsel would be to talk it over with your husband and decide together what would be right for your family according to the limited biblical principles we have that address this issue. My thought is that as long as long as these children are in your home under your parental authority, and your husband is OK with it, it’s fine to formally teach them the Bible.


13. What about teaching the boys in my church’s youth group?

Women should not serve as youth pastors. The Bible restricts pastoral and elder roles to men.

As to teaching the Bible to co-ed groups of minors (in Sunday School, as a youth helper, etc.), there is no hard and fast rule, but my recommendation is that a good time for women to break from teaching boys at church is around the time they start middle school. In the Bible, boys traditionally moved from childhood to adulthood at age thirteen. Jesus exhibited growth toward manhood and engaged the rabbis in the temple at age twelve. Of course, these are both anecdotal and neither means this age is the basis of any sort of law for Christian women about teaching boys, but there seems to be some wisdom there- a good rule of thumb. Once they hit their early teens, boys really need the guidance of godly men who can lead by example and teach them what it means to grow into godly manhood. When it comes to teaching adolescent boys at church, it’s much less about what women are “allowed” to do and much more about the best way to grow godly men. Only men can train boys to be men.


14. Is it OK for women to make announcements, or give mission reports or personal testimonies during the worship service?

I don’t see why these would be a problem biblically, as long as she doesn’t veer off into preaching, exhorting, or instructing the congregation… (See the remainder of my answer to this question in #2 of this article and in this article.)


15. Should women lead prayers during church?

I would discourage it, not because it’s necessarily a violation of Scripture for the woman, but because there seems to be a tragic dearth of male leadership in the church in general. So many men are either too lazy or too afraid to lead, or they see very few examples of what leadership by a godly man looks like. I think it would be great for the pastor to sometimes ask men who need to learn leadership skills to dip a toe in the water by leading a prayer during church, and at other times ask a spiritually mature man to model leadership skills by leading prayer during worship. Sometimes, these kinds of situations aren’t about women’s roles, but men’s needs.


16. Should women serve as worship leaders? What about singing solos, singing in the choir, playing an instrument, etc.?

No, women should not serve as the worship leader. The primary reason I say this has more to do with the position of minister of music – a term I think we need to get back to – than the role of women in the church…Singing in the choir or on the praise team, singing solos, playing an instrument, etc., under the leadership of the minister of music, is, of course, fine… (See the remainder of my answer to this question in #4 of this article.)


17. Should women serve as deacons/deaconesses?

It could be perfectly biblical if we’re using a Scriptural understanding of a deaconess’s duties and position, not the understanding many churches currently have of the (male) office of deacon. In many churches male deacons function as, and are given the authority of elders, carrying out teaching, leadership, authority, and other duties and characteristics that would be biblically inappropriate for women… (See the remainder of my answer to this question in this article.)


18. Can women be missionaries? Is it biblical for women to carry out the Great Commission?

Yes. Absolutely. In fact, we need more women – single and married – to serve as missionaries (more men, too). The only caveat is that women who serve as missionaries need to do so in a way that is in keeping with Scriptural principles of women’s roles in the church. (For example, female missionaries should not be pastoring churches on the mission field. A missionary’s job is to share the gospel with people and then disciple them in sound doctrine, and you don’t want to be teaching false doctrine through the act of preaching to men.) But there are oodles of mission opportunities that fit the bill… (See the remainder of my answer to this question in this article.

The Mailbag: Is it biblical for women to carry out The Great Commission?


19. Can women perform baptisms?

Although there is no biblical prohibition against it, what seems to be most in keeping with the pattern of both Scripture and church history is for pastors and elders to perform baptisms. This would preclude women, as well as most men, from performing baptisms. For more details, see my article Basic Training: Baptism.


20. I’ve heard people say it’s OK for women to preach or teach the Bible to co-ed groups as long as they are doing so under their pastor’s and/or husband’s authority. Is this true?

No. There is no Scripture that says it’s OK for pastors/husbands to extend some sort of mantel of authority to a woman to do these things. When God says “no” about something, no man has a right to say “yes.” I’ve written more about this in my article Fencing off the Forbidden Fruit Tree.


There are thousands of practical scenarios we could go through about women teaching men, but at the end of the day, we ladies have to examine our hearts honestly and ask ourselves: Is it my heart’s desire to do everything I can to obey and submit to Scripture out of love for Christ, or is it my heart’s desire to do what I want to do and either ignore Scripture or twist Scripture to make it fit what I want out of love for myself? That’s ultimately the heart of the matter.


¹It’s important that we ladies remember whose authority we’re under. First and foremost, we are under the authority of Christ and His word, and we are to submit to and obey Him. Next, if you’re a minor still living at home, you are under your parents’ authority, and God’s word directs you to honor and obey them. If you are married, the Bible says that you are to submit to and respect your husband. Finally, SCRIPTURE tells us that we are to submit to the biblical instruction of godly pastors and elders
I remind us of these authorities in our lives because, while I can provide answers to questions, I am not an authority in your life. Your husband, parents, or pastor might prefer that you act in ways other than those I’ve outlined above, so, as long as those ways are in compliance with Scripture, please be sure you’re submitting to them.
Christian women, Church, Complementarianism, Men, Throwback Thursday

Throwback Thursday ~ Adam 3.0: Meanwhile, Back in the Garden, It’s Deja Vu All Over Again

I’m taking some time off this week.
I hope you’ll enjoy this selected article.

Originally published June 26, 2014Adam 3.0

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
1 Timothy 2:12-14

Because it’s my passion to see Christian women become holy, passionate, obedient disciples of Jesus Christ, I’ve dealt with this passage a lot and done a lot of research on it. Scripture is crystal clear that women are not to instruct men in the Scriptures in the church in the capacity of pastor or teacher, nor are they to hold authority over men in other positions in the church. (I’ve outlined Scripture’s case for this here if you’d like to do some further study.) And, unfortunately, there are many women in the church who are disobeying this Scripture (I used to be one of them)– some out of rebellion, and some out of ignorance. But until recently, I –and every other piece of information I’ve studied on the subject– have dealt with the issue of women stepping outside their God-ordained role in the church strictly as a women’s issue.

A few days ago, a friend of mine asked for my opinion on a Q&A video produced by a well known pastor. The pastor was asked, “Is it a sin for men to listen to women speakers [female Christian conference speakers, pastors, teachers, etc.]?”

And that’s when it hit me. I’d never heard this question addressed, or even asked, before. First Timothy 2:12ff is always dealt with from the perspective of women and towards women, that this is a women’s sin issue.

But to treat this role rebellion strictly as the sin of women is to pour gasoline on the fire. If it’s a singularly women’s problem, then it naturally falls on women with a right understanding of God’s word on the issue to deal with it, right? And if these women are the ones who have to confront and deal with this sin, even at the local church level, they’re being placed smack dab in the misappropriated role they’re trying to fight because they’re being asked to do the job of elders and pastors whose responsibility it is to maintain order and discipline in the church.

In other words, my Christian brothers, it’s not your discerning sisters’ job to handle this sin of role busting in the church. It’s yours.

The fact that there’s even a need for an article like this, never mind that a woman is writing it, is indicative of the pervasiveness of the problem. Why haven’t I heard any pastors or other Christian men exhorting men in the church to stand on God’s word, properly fill out their own role in the church, and also deal with the problem of female disobedience to this Scripture? Why are Christian men becoming accomplices to women’s sin by seeking out female pastors and teachers to be their spiritual leaders? I believe there are three reasons:

1. Adam 3.0
Give Genesis 3–the story of the Fall–a read through the lenses of 1 Timothy 2:12. See any similarities between what happened in the Garden and what’s happening in the church?

The man is off somewhere, not fulfilling his role of spiritual guardian, leader, and protector, leaving the woman alone and vulnerable to Satan’s attack. Satan tempts the woman to sin and she succumbs. The woman then entices the man to sin, and instead of standing on God’s word, refusing to sin, and correcting her, he actually joins her in her sin. And when God calls the man to account for this whole scenario, what does the man do? He blames the woman.

Was Eve responsible for her decision to sin? Of course. That’s why we even have 1 Timothy 2:12-14 in the Bible. But God gave the man the authority and God held the man ultimately responsible. That’s why we see passages like Romans 5:12-14 (and others) attributing the sin in the Garden to Adam rather than Eve.

While there are many faithful pastors and Christian men out there diligently laboring to be godly teachers and leaders in the church–and praise God for those men!–there is a large and increasing number of men in our churches, both pastors and laymen, who are failing to fulfill the role God has called men to in the church. Pastors who will only preach what tickles people’s ears. Men who sit in the pews refusing to teach or serve or lead or even attend faithfully.

As it was in the Garden, the Christian men are nowhere to be found as Satan creeps into the church and attacks women with this temptation. And, as God called out then, could He be calling out now, “אָדָם, – Adam- Man, where are you“?

2. Men are lazy.
I know that sounds harsh, but, guys, before you get your boxers in a bunch, please hear what I’m not saying. I’m not saying that all men are lazy or that women are never lazy or that men are lazy in every aspect of their lives. What I’m saying is that, in this particular instance of women stepping outside God’s role for them in the church, too many men are sitting back with the attitude that, hey, if somebody else is willing to do the work why not let her? Instead, women (not to mention boys and younger men) should be seeing men in the church step up and say, “I’ll study hard so I’ll be equipped to teach that class.” “I’ll preach the sermon, not my wife.” “I’ll be willing to shoulder the load God has given me instead of pushing it off on a woman.”

3. Men are afraid of women. 
Not afraid of them physically, but afraid of the ones who will make a scene, cause strife, split churches, get pastors fired, and generally make life hell on earth for anyone who dares to put his foot down firmly on the word of God and say, “You’re in disobedience. You need to repent and step down.” I know these women (and, of course, there are men who do this, too). I have had plenty of them come after me, and, having a husband who’s been in ministry for over 20 years, I’ve seen plenty of them attack pastors, staff, deacons, etc., and I don’t blame men for feeling scared. But men, Jesus has called you to defend His Bride from all enemies, both foreign and domestic, and feeling scared doesn’t excuse you from doing what’s right and biblical. Look to the courage Jesus exhibited on His way to the cross. Look at Peter, Paul, James, and the other apostles as your example of valor as they chose flogging, hardship, jail, and martyrdom over compromising the word of God.

And a special word of encouragement to pastors: your church doesn’t need someone who’s afraid to rock the boat, even if that’s what they want, and even if your job is on the line. It needs a man who will stand for Christ, no matter the cost to him personally or vocationally. You can’t call your people to do that in their own lives if you aren’t willing to do it in yours. The God who was strong enough to save you out of the pit of hell is strong enough to find you another job and provide for your family. Be faithful to preach and carry out the word in season and out of season. You can do it. Trust Christ. He’s got you.

 

God has given women a phenomenal, and much needed, role in the church. He has given men a different, yet equally phenomenal and much needed role in the church. For the local church to function in a healthy way, both men and women have to fill out our own roles correctly. And, guys, we ladies can’t and shouldn’t have to do your job in addition to ours.

I realize this is a more stringent tone than I usually take. Peter, Paul and the other apostles probably raised some eyebrows when they used a stringent tone, too. But when a house is burning down, the fireman doesn’t tiptoe in, hand you flowers, and politely request that you, pretty please, come with him. And that’s where we are in the church. The house is burning down around us. And, in the end, this article is not meant to be a castigation of pastors or other Christian men, but an impassioned plea from a church lady who wants to see her sisters make it out alive.

Help us. Please. Be the heroic men of God that you have the right, the calling, and the responsibility to be. Because, despite what some of the women of your church might say, that’s what we, and the body of Christ, so desperately need.