Church – Page 82 – Michelle Lesley

A while back, my husband and I were driving down the road on the way to the store discussing various aspects of ministry. At some point the conversation turned to a pastor with whom we were both vaguely familiar. Neither of us knew much about him, so we decided to look him up on Facebook to see if we could get a better handle on where he was coming from, theologically. Aside from a couple of mildly iffy posts that it wasn’t a stretch to extend the benefit of the doubt about, it didn’t seem as though there were any major doctrinal red flags. He just seemed like your average, Bible believing pastor who needed to brush up a little on his discernment. (Hey, who doesn’t, right?)

I was actually more interested in the pastor’s wife and what kind of ministries she was involved in that I might also like, so I clicked over to her page. I was pretty disappointed by what I saw. She had posted materials from several major false teachers- the female equivalents of people from Joel Osteen all the way down to Benny Hinn.

I remarked to my husband that I thought there might be some concerns about this pastor’s theology if he was OK with his wife following and sharing materials from high profile false teachers. And my husband gently reminded me that wasn’t necessarily the case:

“He probably doesn’t even know those women are false teachers.”

My husband went on to say that he wouldn’t have known that people like Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer are false teachers if I hadn’t done the research and filled him in. Not because he doesn’t care whether or not I read sound doctrine, but because pastors and Christian men in general don’t often pick up and read books written for Christian women to examine the theology we’re feeding on.

Until the last few decades, they haven’t always needed to. If your wife went shopping and came home with a book from LifeWay, it never crossed your mind to question whether or not it was biblical. It was LifeWay for heaven’s sake. LifeWay is run by pastors and theologians with years of experience and doctoral degrees from seminary. Of course it was biblical.

Well not any more, it isn’t. The majority (and that’s not an exaggeration) of the “Bible” studies and other materials marketed to Christian women by Christian retailers are authored by false teachers.

Pastors, on behalf of Christian women everywhere, I plead with you: check out the theology of the authors and bloggers (including me) your wife is reading and the Christian personalities she follows and shares on social media. Please thoroughly vet the materials your Sunday School/small group/Bible study classes and women’s ministry are using. Find out about the speakers headlining the women’s conference or simulcast your ladies are attending. Make sure guest speakers appearing at your church’s women’s event teach sound doctrine.

Why?

It’s not my place to instruct you (and I’m sure you already know, anyway) in what the Scriptures say about being the spiritual leader of your family, responsible for its theological health or your obligations as a pastor to guard your church against false doctrine. I’ll leave that to godly men, fellow pastors, theologians, etc. What I’d like to do is to offer you some practical insights (in no particular order) from the pink side of the pew that you might find to be helpful tools as you think about and pray through how to handle vetting the teachers your wife or church ladies follow:

1. Your wife’s decision to follow false teachers could cost you a job. There are women out there like me who are familiar with the “twisted sisters” your wife is sharing on social media. If I could wrongly make assumptions about the theology of the aforementioned pastor based solely on his wife’s Facebook activity (because wives can be a reflection of their husbands’ spiritual leadership), others could do the same – maybe even those on a pulpit search committee – and that could impact your search for a pastoral position.

2. You don’t want to shoot yourself in the foot. A pastor’s wife can have a huge influence on her church. She is often the one teaching the women’s Bible study or heading up the women’s ministry, and even if she doesn’t, her input on curricula, guest speakers for women’s events, etc., is usually seen by the women of your church as carrying the weight of your approval or preferences. If you’re up in the pulpit preaching sound doctrine every week while your wife or women’s leader is importing false doctrine into the women’s ministry, it’s like bailing water out of a boat with a hole in the hull.

3. Your wife or (women’s ministry leader) may be chasing off spiritually healthy church members. (If you’ve stuck with me thus far, what follows is unlikely to describe your wife, but I’m going to go ahead and throw it out there for awareness’ sake.) I have heard the following prototypical scenario from dozens of Christian women (and experienced it myself):

“My pastor’s wife is in charge of our church’s women’s ministry, and is a big Beth Moore fan. We only do Beth Moore studies in our small groups, and last year our church hosted a Beth Moore simulcast. I participated in a couple of the studies, but they just seemed “off” biblically, so I started doing some research.

I discovered Beth Moore was teaching false doctrine, partnering with false teachers, and doing other unbiblical things. I went to the pastor’s wife and very kindly, humbly, and patiently showed her the scriptural evidence of Beth Moore’s false teaching. I couldn’t believe it when she flew into a rage, screamed at me, and accused me of trying to create disunity in the church! My husband and I tried to talk to the pastor about it, but he seemed completely unaware of what goes on in the women’s ministry or any problems with Beth Moore, and backed up his wife. We are now looking for a new church.”

This is not an exaggeration or isolated case. I don’t know what it is about Beth Moore’s disciples, but they (especially the ones who are pastors’ wives) seem to be some of the most vicious defenders of false teachers out there. And if your wife or women’s ministry leader acts like this it could cost you godly, spiritually mature church members.

4. Your children’s spiritual lives are at stake, both at home and at church. As with any dad who works long hours, your wife probably has more of an influence in the moment to moment aspects of your children’s lives than you do, even when it comes to training them in godliness. If her spiritual diet consists of false teaching, that’s what is being imparted to your children on a daily basis.

The same goes for the children at your church. The majority of children’s Sunday School teachers and children’s ministry workers are women. The false doctrine these women consume today will be taught to the children of your church on Sunday.

5. When women are spiritually healthy, the whole family benefits. Statistically, women make up about 60% of church attenders, and, of course, 50% of a marriage. That is an enormous influence on your own family and your church family. You want those women spiritually healthy. It’s not only biblical and good for them personally, but everyone they influence and interact with benefits.

When women are taught sound doctrine, they grow to Christlike maturity. They exhibit the fruit of the Spirit. They want to share the gospel. They walk in humility, patience, love, repentance, forgiveness, and biblical submission. They encourage their husbands toward godliness. And you know what else they do?

They teach other women to do the same. They train up children who are godly. They’re self-replicating.

Spiritually healthy, mature, godly women make your life easier, more peaceful, and more of a joy, both at home and at church, because they’re working with you, not against you.

But your wife and the women of your church are not going to get the pure milk of the Word they need to grow in Christlikeness from the pantheon of divangelistas lining the shelves of your local Christian bookstore. And most of those precious ladies you shepherd are completely unaware of that fact. So they need your help, Pastor. Your bride, and the Bride, desperately need you to mind what they’re reading.

Christian women, Complementarianism

Women Teaching Men: My Thoughts on Aimee’s and Mary’s Articles

May 24, 2016March 5, 2022 Michelle Lesley

aimee mary

UPDATE: Please note, this article was written in 2016. It should not be construed to be a current endorsement of either Aimee or Mary.

My friends and readers are the best. They are so sweet and helpful when it comes to making sure I stay up to date on what’s happening out there in Evangelicaland. It’s like having a little army of really smart co-laborers who are great at research.

Last week, a couple of articles about women teaching men appeared on the Reformed complementarian women’s landscape, and several folks were kind enough to send them to me and ask for my reaction. I e-mailed the readers back with my responses, which I’ve posted below.

What is Sunday School? What Does it Appear to Be? And Who Can Teach It?
by Aimee Byrd
May 18, 2016

I have loved and respected Aimee’s work as a writer and podcaster for a while. This article was apparently written to clarify some things that had been said on a Mortification of Spin podcast.

“I didn’t catch the podcast, but I did read the article. I was disappointed with what Aimee said, because Steve’s comments [Steve Cooley’s comments in the comment section following the article] are correct. Also, if we look at the broad pattern of male headship in Scripture…

man was created first, then woman
woman was created to be helper to man
women are to submit to their husbands
women are not to serve in the office of elder or pastor
women are not to preach to men
women are not to exercise authority over/lead men in the church

…which fits better with this pattern, women teaching men in co-ed Sunday School or women not teaching men in co-ed Sunday School? I think it’s pretty clear that women not teaching men in co-ed Sunday School fits best. Why would God set this pattern of male headship in motion and then turn around and contradict it when it comes to women teaching men in Sunday School?

Furthermore, the gathering of a body of believers for studying the Bible is the gathering of the church, whether it is in someone’s home (like the first century church), a sanctuary, or a Sunday School classroom. We’re the ones who have invented all these lines of delineation between Sunday School, worship service, Christian conferences, revival meetings, etc., and then tried to go back and figure out which of these man-made distinctions 1 Timothy 2:12 applies to. When 1 Timothy was written, they didn’t have all that. The church was just the gathering of the believers for worship, study, etc. So 1 Timothy 2:12 applies to the gathered body of believers without respect to all these artificial lines we’ve drawn.”

Again, I have great respect for Aimee, but I disagree with her on this particular issue. It’s possible that the differences in our denominational viewpoints of Sunday School play a big part in this, and that if we ever had the chance to sit down and hash it out over coffee or something, we might find more common ground.

Women Teaching Men- How Far is Too Far?
by Mary Kassian
May 21, 2016

I’m not as familiar with Mary as I am with Aimee, but I’ve read and enjoyed a few of her articles. This one may have been a response to Aimee’s article above.

“Good stuff! I agree with her about 90%. I love that she brought out the part about “teaching under a man’s authority.” I wrote about that not long ago. It’s nice to hear somebody with a bigger platform say it. I hope people will listen to her!

I also love what she says about what we love versus following a set of rules. So true! Another aspect of this that I run into frequently with women who want to preach is that they’re so focused on leading they forget about Jesus’ example of humility in servanthood. We’re supposed to be focused on serving, not gaining notoriety.

My main disagreement with her would be the line she (and most others who address this issue) draws between the worship service and things like Sunday School and Christian conferences. Those are really man made lines of distinction rather than biblical ones. The “church” is the gathered body of believers for worship and biblical instruction. So whenever believers are gathered for those purposes – whether we call it Sunday School or worship service or a Christian conference, and whether it’s in a sanctuary, Sunday School classroom, or conference center – that’s the church, and the Scriptural mandate for women not to teach or hold authority over men applies.

I also think it’s interesting that in the second paragraph under “Can Women Teach Under Male Authority” she rightly points out, “The text doesn’t say, ‘A woman may teach men if…'”. But then later in the article she talks about how she feels it’s OK for her to teach men if they’re much younger than she is. Well, just like the text doesn’t say a woman can teach men if she’s doing so under male authority, it also doesn’t say it’s OK for a woman to teach men if she’s much older than they are. It just says “don’t”. Curious.”

Mary’s position on this issue is much more similar to mine. I hope to hear more from her about this in future articles.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Can a divorced man be a pastor?

May 23, 2016June 8, 2019 Michelle Lesley

mailbag

Is it OK for pastors to be divorced?

Not just any man is qualified to be a pastor. The Bible sets forth a specific list of requirements for pastors and elders in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. One of these requirements is that he must be “the husband of one wife.” Unfortunately, this phrase has sometimes been misunderstood to mean that pastors and elders must be married (which would exclude never married, divorced, and widowed men) or that pastors and elders must never have been divorced for any reason.

I pretty much agree with John MacArthur’s position in this article, which helpfully explains that the phrase “husband of one wife” actually means “a one-woman man,” not “never divorced,” or “wife required.” Unlike MacArthur, I might not say it’s “extremely rare” that it would be OK for a pastor to have a divorce in his past, maybe just “rare.”

I really think we need to look at it on a case by case basis, especially if the man was divorced for one of the two biblical exceptions: the wife’s infidelity (Matthew 5:32) or an unbelieving wife divorcing him (1 Corinthians 7:15). Although I respect an autonomous church’s right to set whatever policies it deems appropriate (as long as those policies don’t violate Scripture), I, personally, don’t think it’s right to deny a man the office due to his wife’s sin that he had no control over and may have done everything in his power to prevent.

I also think we need to look at how long ago the divorce took place and whether it happened before or after the man was saved. What about a man who was divorced 30 years ago due to one of the bibilical exceptions, but has been a godly husband to his second wife for the past 25 years? What about a man who was divorced 30 years ago, subsequently got saved, tried to reunite with his ex-wife but was rejected, married a godly woman, and has been a godly husband to her for the past 25 years? There are prohibitions against being a drunkard in the biblical qualifications, too. Would we deny a man the office, if, prior to salvation, he was a drunkard, but got saved and has been sober for 25 years? These are issues churches should work through prayerfully when considering a candidate.

A man already in the office of pastor/elder who goes through a divorce should step down for a significant period of time. If the divorce was for unbiblical reasons, he has probably disqualified himself. But even if it was for biblical reasons, he needs time to heal and to focus on helping his children. For the same reasons, I don’t think a man who has been recently divorced should be considered for the office.

If you have a question about: a well known Christian author/leader, a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Christian women, Men

Feminist Infiltration and the Emasculation of Christian Men

May 13, 2016August 26, 2025 Michelle Lesley

I hate radical secular feminism. I really do. Don’t get me wrong, I deeply appreciate the right to vote and own property. I think that men and women with the same amount of experience and education should be paid the same amount of money for doing the same job. And, I love seeing women study and develop their minds (particularly in the area of sound biblical doctrine.)

But what I don’t like is some of the methods that have been employed to achieve these things, the biblical values that have been sacrificed along the way, and the emasculating impact feminism has had on men.

Turn on any television show, watch a commercial, go to the movies, read the news, scroll through your social media feed, and examine the way men are generally viewed, spoken of, and being treated by others.

If a female character on a TV show slaps her husband or punches him in the arm, we laugh or sympathize with her anger, depending on the scenario, but if the roles were reversed we’d call the same behavior from a man abuse.

Men are frequently portrayed as bumbling incompetents as fathers, husbands, and employees, with a heroine mom, wife, or co-worker stepping in to save the day.

We see women wearing the pants in the family and treating their husbands like an extra child, and we see men who respond in kind: acting like children, obeying their wives’ commands, and, often, indulging in hours of childish pastimes, like video games, instead of working hard and caring for their families.

It’s not Father Knows Best anymore. It’s Father’s a Moronic Buffoon to Kick Around.

It’s not “Father Knows Best” anymore. It’s “Father’s a Moronic Buffoon to Kick Around”. And what’s alarming is that these attitudes have been creeping into the church for years.
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And what’s alarming is that these attitudes have been creeping into the church for years.

Just as women rebelled against the law and social conventions to gain equality with men, “Christian” women now rebel against Scripture by becoming pastors and instructing and holding authority over men in the church. (In fact, this has been going on so long that many in the next generation aren’t even aware that the Bible prohibits this.)

Just as men in secular society have stepped back to avoid being run over by headstrong women, or even joined them in their quest for female dominance, evangelical men have abdicated their God-given positions of leadership in the church and home, sometimes even joining women in their violation of Scripture by inviting them into unbiblical positions of leadership and by sitting under their teaching and preaching.

Those are the things that are overt and visible. But it’s happening on a more subtle level, too, even among complementarian men, women, and churches.

Have you ever heard a man attempt to praise his wife by saying, “I married up,” or “way up,” or “way over my head,” and then proceed to describe himself as, basically, a bucket of slime in comparison to his wife? Most of the men I’ve heard say this have been good, godly men, including my husband, who has made similar remarks in the past.

Have you ever heard a man attempt to praise his wife by saying, “I married up,” or “way up,” or “way over my head,” and then proceed to describe himself as, basically, a bucket of slime in comparison to his wife?
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I don’t know about the rest of you ladies, but I don’t want to hear anyone putting my husband (or any of my godly male friends) down, even my husband himself. The truth is, for believers, the cross is the great equalizer. We all marry equally up and equally down, because we are all redeemed, yet broken, sinful human beings- simultaneously saint and sinner.

The cross is the great equalizer. We all marry equally up and equally down, because we are all redeemed, yet broken, sinful human beings- simultaneously saint and sinner.
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And what about things like this?

There are some really great messages in this video:

Being a mom can be tough, and husbands should appreciate all the hard work their wives do as mothers.

God wired women differently from men in a way that uniquely equips us for motherhood, and these differences are good and should be valued.

Dads need to step in and give moms a break every now and then.

It’s just supposed to be a lighthearted “moms are precious” video. I get that. But how are the makers of the video achieving the “lighthearted” part? By portraying dads as silly and hapless.

Where are we getting this idea that men have to be torn down in order to build women up? Not from the Bible, but from secular feminism. That’s their modus operandi, not God’s.

Where are we getting this idea that men have to be torn down in order to build women up? Not from the Bible, but from secular feminism.
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We always look at Proverbs 31:10-31 with regard to what it says about excellent wives, but have you ever noticed what it says about husbands?

The heart of her husband trusts in her,
and he will have no lack of gain.
She does him good, and not harm…

Her husband is known in the gates
when he sits among the elders of the land…

Her children rise up and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
“Many women have done excellently,
but you surpass them all.”
11-12a, 23, 28-29

We always look at Proverbs 31:10-31 with regard to what it says about excellent wives, but have you ever noticed what it says about husbands?
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Here, in the quintessential passage praising godly wives, do we see a silly cartoon character of a husband? Do we see a husband being belittled so his wife can look good? No. We see a godly wife who does her husband good and inspires and encourages him to go out and conquer the world. We see a respectable man with a good reputation. And, we see a man who trusts, appreciates, and praises his wife without a hint of self deprecation.

The world’s way is that for women to be winners, men must lose. God’s way is iron sharpens iron. When wives are godly, it influences their husbands to be godly, and vice versa. When women fulfill the roles God has ordained for them at church, it frees and encourages men to be the leaders God has called them to be. We build each other up without tearing ourselves down. Nobody has to lose in order for somebody else to win. Godliness is truly a win-win situation.

The world’s way? For women to win, men must lose. God’s way is “iron sharpens iron”. We build each other up without tearing ourselves down. Nobody has to lose in order for somebody else to win. Godliness is truly a win-win situation.
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Godly women are important, specially crafted by God for our roles, and worthy of honor and respect. But so are godly men. Let’s be sure, in the family and in the church, that we’re taking our cues from Scripture, not the world, when it comes to valuing women and men.

Ministry, Throwback Thursday

7 Ways to Encourage Your Minister of Music

May 12, 2016September 25, 2024 Michelle Lesley

Originally published November 18, 2014

Numerous articles have been written about how you, as a church member, can be an encouragement to your pastor- how you can constructively praise his sermon, pray for him, get him a great gift for Pastor Appreciation Month, etc. These are good things. Please be sure to support your pastor. Being a pastor is one of the toughest and most thankless jobs out there, and if you’ve read the statistics you know pastors need and deserve all the encouragement they can get.

Your preaching pastor isn’t the only person on your church’s staff who needs your support. So does your minister of music.
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But your preaching pastor isn’t the only person on your church’s staff who needs your support. So does your minister of music. And, having been married to one for over twenty years, I can tell you there aren’t many articles out there letting you know how church members can encourage their ministers of music. Ready to show some love? Here are seven ways you can be an encouragement to your minister of music.

1.
Make practice a priority.

Before you join the choir or praise team or volunteer to play an instrument, find out how much of a time commitment it will be, and consider whether or not you can diligently keep that commitment. Once you’ve joined or volunteered, attend rehearsals, worship services, and performances faithfully, and be sure to arrive on time. You have no idea how much it means to your minister of music that he can count on you.

2.
Get to church on time.

Think about how you would feel if you planned a dinner party, worked hard all week cooking and cleaning, and then one of the couples you invited carelessly showed up halfway through the meal. You’d probably think that was kind of rude and feel somewhat discouraged. That’s sort of the way a minister of music can feel when people (especially the same people every week) habitually arrive late to church for non-emergency reasons. Not only that, but it’s a distraction to others when you come in late, plus you’re missing out on praising God and getting your heart prepared to receive His Word during the sermon. Being on time and ready for worship benefits everybody!

3.
Sing!

If you were in a meeting at work or in a college class, would you pick up your knitting, clip your nails, walk around the room chatting with friends, or bury your nose in your phone the whole time? Probably not, yet, over the years I have seen church members do all these and more during the music portion of the worship service. It’s disrespectful to the God we’re supposed to be worshiping and to the minister of music who is trying to do the work God has called him to. On the other hand, I love it when we get in the car after church and my husband says, with a smile on his face, “Wow, they were really singing today!” We have an incredible Savior who has given us the privilege of praising Him, so let’s take Him up on it. Sing out! You can worship and be an encourager all at the same time.

4.
Smile!

It’s pretty disheartening for a minister of music to stand up front, giving it all he’s got, and then look out over the congregation and see a bunch of people looking like they’d rather be at the dentist. Think about Who you’re singing to and all the reasons why you’re singing to Him, and I challenge you to keep a frown on your face! Just the simple act of smiling while you’re singing will do wonders for your minister of music (and for you!).

5.
Think before you complain.

Has your minister of music said or done something that’s clearly a sin or false doctrine? If so, you have a biblical obligation to go to him -kindly and in love- and talk to him about it directly.

Is your complaint a matter of personal preference- style of music, whether or not he wears a tie, etc.? Give it 24 hours. Does it still seem just as important? Could you possibly be a servant to him (and others in the congregation whose opinion is the opposite of yours) by overlooking an offense and not complaining?

If you do feel the need to voice your concern (and there are valid concerns that aren’t sin-related), approach your minister of music the way you would want to be approached. Instead of, “Turn that dadgum volume DOWN!” how about, “I was wondering if it would be possible to ask the sound tech to lower the volume in the house speakers a little? My baby’s ears are very sensitive and she gets fussy when it’s that loud. I hate missing worship when I have to take her out to the lobby.” Instead of, “Hymns are so boring. I don’t see why we have to sing them half the time,” how about, “I really loved those two worship songs we sang this morning! Do you think we might be able to sing more songs like that soon?” Christ wants us to be kind to one another, so show your minister of music a little “Golden Rule” love.

6.
Speak encouraging words often.

It’s been our experience, and seems to be the general consensus among ministers of music, that the most common kind of feedback they get is negative feedback. People are much quicker to complain than affirm. Buck the trend. Did he choose one of your favorite songs for the service? Did a certain song help you to understand one of God’s attributes better? Did the choir do a nice job on their anthem? Are you praying for him? Tell him. He appreciates it more than you know.

7.
Show tangible appreciation.

It is amazing what even the smallest gift can do to lift my husband’s spirits. A card of appreciation (I have come across cards that he has saved for years), something related to one of his hobbies, a church member buying him lunch at a fast food place. They might be small items monetarily speaking, but their message is, “I care about you, and I appreciate your hard work.” And that’s priceless.

We have been blessed over the last two decades to serve at several churches that had members who were very good at encouraging their minister of music. Their love and support made my husband’s ministry a joy. What are some ways you can think of to encourage the minister of music at your church and spread that same kind of joy?