Podcast Appearances

After Thought Podcast Guest Appearance Part 2: The Open Letter to Beth Moore

 

I had a super time chatting with Lauren Hereford on the After Thought podcast. Listen in to part 2 of this episode as Lauren and I discuss the Open Letter to Beth Moore, the Southern Baptist Convention, and more! And here’s part 1 in case you didn’t catch it last week.

 

You can also subscribe to After Thought on iTunes and Google Play. Be sure to check out Lauren’s blog, Biblical Beginnings, too, and follow along on Facebook and Twitter!

If you’d like to sign the Open Letter to Beth Moore you’re more than welcome to do so (click the link, scroll all the way to the bottom, and leave a comment in the comment box). Also mentioned in the podcast:

An Open Letter to Beth Moore – Timeline of Events

Living Proof You Should Follow Beth (No) Moore


Got a podcast of your own or have a podcasting friend who needs a guest? Need a speaker for a women’s conference or church event? Click the “Speaking Engagements” tab at the top of this page, drop me an e-mail, and let’s chat!

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Should I Join a Church Pastored by a Loved One?

 

We are just coming out of a non denominational church environment, and we’re so excited to have found a new, doctrinally sound church. However, my son-in-law is the assistant pastor. Is it wise to consider joining a church where your son-in-law is in a pastoral position? I am concerned as this may be crossing boundaries in some respects and I’m wondering if we would be better to seek out another church.

I suspect a lot of people might wonder if it’s a good idea to join a church where their close family member is the pastor, minister of music, or in another pastoral leadership position, so this is a great question to tackle.

Naturally, when we have a decision to make, the first thing we do is to find out what Scripture has to say about the issue. It would be so much easier to answer this question if the Bible clearly said, “Thou shalt/shalt not join a church pastored by a relative,” but, as with so many other specific scenarios, God’s Word doesn’t really address this issue. We have to pray and ask God for wisdom and guidance as we seek to make the most godly decision possible:

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. James 1:5

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

Basic Training: 8 Steps to Finding God’s Will for Your Life

There’s no “one size fits all” answer to this question. A lot of it is going to depend on your particular relationship to your particular family member, which position he holds in the church, and how spiritually healthy the church is. But mostly, it will depend on whether God is truly leading you to this specific church or not.

If this is the only doctrinally sound church available to you, join it. Sound doctrine is more important than potential family issues.

If it’s a strong, healthy church, you have a solid, loving, relationship with your loved one on staff, and you’re convinced through wisdom, prayer, and circumstances that it’s God’s desire that you join this church, then go the direction God is leading you and join it.

Having been a member of a couple of churches in which a pastor’s extended family were members of the church, and even when extended family members simply attend the same church together and none of them are on staff, I would encourage you to think about the following points and sit down with your daughter and son-in-law and have an open and honest discussion about these things and how they might be handled. A sit-down meeting like this will help give you more insight as to whether or not you should join the church:

•What are your daughter’s and son-in-law’s thoughts about you and your husband joining this church? Would they be uncomfortable in any way with you joining the church? Encourage them to be completely honest about concerns and problems they foresee arising, and lovingly hear them out.

•Honestly and objectively consider the emotional and personality dynamics of your relationship with your daughter and son-in-law. Would your son-in-law feel tempted to make church decisions that would please you rather than following God’s leading or the pastor’s direction to do something else? Would you be tempted to be critical or manipulative with your son-in-law if you didn’t agree with his decisions? Could you graciously submit to your daughter’s leadership (without trying to tell her what to do) if she were leading the area of ministry you were working in? Ministry is hard enough without the added pressure of trying not to offend a family member, especially a parent.

•Recall or imagine the worst thing you’ve ever seen or know of happening in a church. Now imagine that happening in this church with you, your husband, your daughter, and son-in-law as members of the church, and your son-in-law in a position of leadership. What would be the impact on your familial relationships with one another?

•What’s going to happen to your personal relationship with your daughter and son-in-law if a problem arises in the church and you’re on opposite sides of the issue? What if it’s such a huge problem you and your husband have to leave the church? How will that affect your family?

•One thing I have always encouraged pastors’ wives to do is to have at least one good, godly friend outside the church she and her husband serve. That way, she has someone who’s not personally involved with the church who can pray for her, offer her objective counsel, and with whom she can freely share her burdens. Your son-in-law needs that too. Consider whether you and your husband could be a greater support and godly counsel to your daughter and son-in-law by not joining their church.

•If you decide to join the church, are there any “ground rules” that either you and your husband or your daughter and son-in-law feel would be beneficial to your relationship as family members, as church members, and as assistant pastor to church members? It may be helpful to discuss these, write them out for clarity, and agree to them before you join the church.

•Bear in mind that any negative situation that might happen in the future is not something you can foresee right now. Even if something nasty does end up happening in the church it doesn’t necessarily mean you were wrong in deciding to join the church. God may put you in this church specifically for the purpose of being a biblical example and influence in that future situation that He knows is coming, even if it’s extreme enough to cost you your relationship with your daughter and son-in-law. Our calling as Christians is not to maintain family relationships at all costs, but to follow and obey Christ and His Word no matter the cost. Will you – and they – be able to do that if you join this church?

•Remember that the final decision on this issue is up to your husband, and God calls you to graciously submit to whatever he decides.

Pray and discuss these things with your daughter and son-in-law, and ask God to lead you and your husband to a wise decision.


If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Guest Posts

Guest Post: 8 Ways to Pray for Your Pastor’s Wife

If your theology pretty much matches up with mine (as outlined in the “Welcome” and “Statement of Faith” tabs) and you’d like to contribute a guest post, drop me an e-mail at MichelleLesley1@yahoo.com, and let’s chat about it.

 

8 Ways to Pray for Your Pastor’s Wife
by Jennifer Buck

As a pastor’s wife, I have seen many lists of ways to “pray for your pastor.” I admit, I usually scroll through and delete them as I find most to be…well…generic.

Michelle, however, actually hit the pulse of what a pastor really needs in our prayers. I found myself reading and inwardly shouting, “YES! This is exactly what pastors need.”.

Then my mind began forming a list of what their wives need in our prayers—more than just physical strength and a good group of friends. Although those things are important, I believe these other areas, as they are cultivated in her life would result in physical endurance and draw women wanting friendships with her.

I don’t think a pastor’s wife should live or look differently than any other believer in Christ. However, I do think she’s in this sometimes awkward but wonderful position of having a pulse on the heart of the church her husband serves and is so heavily invested in.

She’s an insider, but not really; it’s complicated. She may know a lot of what’s happening, but may have no leadership position. Even if she does, she’s limited to the scope of the area of which she heads.

She is not a female version of her husband. She is usually looked to as an over all leader by the people, but has no authority to act independently as a decision maker. Therefore, it does take an extra measure of grace to be acutely aware of the inner workings of the church but often only able to watch, offer ideas or opinions when asked, or mostly, wait as the leaders/committees make the decisions that will shape the church.

With those things in mind, if I were asked what to pray for me or any pastor’s wife, this would be my list:

1

Pray she has a deep love for the people in her church. There is a special love that can be developed for the Lord’s church. She doesn’t have to intimately know each person to hold a deep and genuine concern for their well-being and spiritual development.

2

That she loves the Lord God with all her heart and soul and mind. Being in the ministry does not guarantee that a once teachable heart cannot grow cold. Her personal walk must not be neglected in the doing of ministry. She needs to operate with a steady and sound mind.

3

That she delights in caring for her family/home. Her husband’s role will by necessity make his presence in the home sometimes erratic as he cares for the church. She needs to be the steady presence in the home. Her attitude will help form the opinion of her children about the church and the demands on their father. She will also need to be able to alert her husband when the needs of the home are greater for a period of time. Sometimes in ministry, the church will need his attention more than home and at other times the family will need his attention more. A wise wife will help him see the greater needs and willingly allow him to be where he is needed the most.

4

Pray she is able to submit to the reality that her daily living will serve as a model for others. She will naturally be looked to as an example, and she needs to be willing to live a life that reflects well the work of Christ in her.

5

That she does not have a grudge-holding heart. Ministry can be hard. Sometimes hurtful things are said and done and a pastor’s wife will not endure well if she carries the offenses of her husband. She must be able to take her hurt to the Lord and be willing to remind her husband, when he forgets, to lay his grievances before the cross also.

6

She needs to be able to allow her husband time to grieve in situations she cannot help him through. Sometimes he carries a grief no one but the Lord can lighten. He must simply walk through it.

7

That she be less concerned about what others think of her and more concerned about pleasing the Lord. That will provide much protection for her heart.

8

That she learns contentment and finds comfort in the knowledge that her personal and family needs will be provided by the Lord – in his time. Pray she functions knowing, “When I need it, it will be provided, if I don’t have it, I don’t need it yet.”

 

This is by no means an exhaustive list, these are just some of the things I have had to walk through and learned how to process in my years as a pastor’s wife. I’ve seen many other wives do these things well and watched them flourish in home and church. Others have not fared so well and I have watched with sadness as their marriage and ministry either crumbled or lost all effectiveness.

There is no doubt that ministry has its hard moments, however, it is also an amazing journey to be a part of laboring alongside your husband and witnessing the transforming work of the Gospel. Praying for your pastor and his wife can be a way for the church family to participate in the continuation and transforming work of the Gospel in the hearts of those who lead them.


Jennifer and her husband, Tom have been married for 32 years and have 3 children. For the last 13 years they have been serving in Lindale TX, where Tom is Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church. Jennifer is one of the teachers in the church’s Women’s Bible Study Fellowship and leads a small group discipleship called Gracestoration. Jennifer loves to teach and encourage women in the truths of Scripture.

Relationships

Throwback Thursday ~ How Can We Be Friends? 4 Biblical and Practical Considerations for Co-Ed Christian Friendships

Originally published July 13, 2018

Any time an issue regarding the roles and relationships between Christian men and women comes up, there’s bound to be an airing of opinions. Strong opinions. And the social media opinions du jour are about friendships between Christian men and women. What’s appropriate? What’s not? Can Christian men and women have genuinely platonic friendships? Twitter is currently all a-chirp over Aimee Byrd’s new book Why Can’t We Be Friends? which addresses…

…the way to stand against culture is not by allowing it to drive us apart—it is by seeking the brother-and-sister closeness we are privileged to have as Christians. Here is a plan for true, godly friendship between the sexes that embraces the family we truly are in Christ and serves as the exact witness the watching world needs.
P&R Publishing, About: Why Can’t We Be Friends by Aimee Byrd

I guess it’s just the way my brain is wired, but when I first heard about Aimee’s book, my initial reaction was along the lines of, “Oh. OK. Sounds interesting…Why do we need a book about this?”. It was the same kind of reaction I’d have if somebody came out with a book about humans needing to breathe air or fire being hot. Yeah. That’s a given. Brothers and sisters in Christ have been friends for upwards of 2000 years now. I don’t understand what else there is to say about that.

But the more I thought about it – the way people have lost their ever lovin’ minds about how to properly relate to, even talk to, one another – the more I thought maybe this book was a good idea. In a world where a man can’t even stand next to Beth Moore and be taller than her without being accused of misogyny, perhaps a remedial course on the most basic of human relationships is in order.

I haven’t read Aimee’s book, so this isn’t a critique or review of it (you can read a detailed review by Amy Mantravadi here), but I did listen to her interview about Why Can’t We Be Friends on Theology Gals, and I didn’t hear anything problematic in Aimee’s description of her perspective on the subject. From what I’ve heard and read, I probably wouldn’t agree with Aimee about every single thing in the book, but I have no reason to believe she is advancing any unbiblical ideas, and that Why Can’t We Be Friends will likely prove a helpful biblical resource for many. My advice: If you want to know what Aimee thinks and whether or not it’s biblical, read the book and compare it to rightly handled Scripture.

But as I continued to think about and read discussions about the issue – especially in light of words like “misogyny”, “sexism”, and “abuse” being bandied about in evangelicalism like so many badminton birdies – I started seeing some aspects of this topic I wanted to address. Why can’t Christian men and women be friends? How can we be friends? Are there any potential problems we need to anticipate? Here are four practical and biblical things to take into consideration as we contemplate friendships between the sexes.

1.
Defining Our Terms

One of the first whiffs of controversy I caught about Aimee’s book was a Christian gentleman’s emphatic no to the question of whether or not men and women could be friends. His reasoning? Co-ed friendships would inevitably lead to adultery. As the conversation progressed, comments were made by more than one man suggesting that the only female friend a man should have is his wife. Why? Because these gentlemen were defining friendship as a deeply emotionally intimate relationship- the kind of spiritually bonded relationship you should only have with your spouse.

Well, OK, if that’s the way you define friendship, you’re right. You shouldn’t have that kind of relationship with anyone of the opposite sex. Or the same sex either. That “oneness” kind of friendship is restricted to one person on the planet- your spouse. Defining friendship this way essentially restricts you to no friends until you get married, and one friend thereafter.

The thing is, that’s not how 99.999% of people define the word “friendship.” That’s how people define the word “spouse.” That’s why we have two different words – friend and spouse – because they denote two different types of relationships. Your spouse should certainly be your friend, but your friend doesn’t have to be your spouse.

The concept of friendship is much more fluid, and generally, more broadly defined than unhelpfully equating “friend” with “spouse”. There is a spectrum of intimacy with others that ranges from “I just met this person” on one end to “I’ve been blissfully married to this person for 80 years” on the other end, and all kinds of levels of affinity in between.

There’s the “hello at the mailbox, can I borrow your rake” neighbor whose last name you might not even know, casual acquaintances like store clerks and stylists whom you see occasionally and make perfunctory small talk with, regular acquaintances like co-workers and people you’re friendly with at church but don’t socialize with outside that venue, couples you and your spouse are friends with and spend time with, “shared interest” friends (Civil War buff buddies, gardening buddies, etc.), social media friends, good friends who share a very emotionally close, personal relationship, and then there’s your spouse.

All of those people can be classified, at one level or another, as “friends”. Maybe the question shouldn’t be “Can Christian men and women be friends?” but “Which levels of friendship are biblically appropriate for Christian men and women to engage in?”

2.
Talk About It

If you’re married, especially if there have ever been issues of infidelity or insecurity for either of you, it’s wise to talk out what you’re both comfortable with when it comes to friendships outside the marriage.

It should be a no-brainer that neither of you should have any friendships that even come close to the emotional intimacy, affection, energy, and time you expend with each other. That’s not usually much of a problem for men, but, ladies, what about that close relationship you have with your mother, your sister, or your dearest girl friend? When you get phenomenal news – or devastating news – who is the first person you want to run to and share it with? If it’s anybody other than your husband, that’s a signal that you’re probably too close to that friend and not close enough to your husband.

But beyond being first in each others’ lives, what would be helpful and godly in your marriage regarding opposite sex (or even same sex) friendships? How much time is too much time to spend with a friend? What about going places together, talking on the phone, exchanging e-mails or private messages on social media? Which of the aforementioned “levels” of friendship should be restricted to members of the same sex? Discuss what each of you are OK with and not OK with, and why, avoiding the appearance of evil, and be sure to discuss practical safeguards you can each take against temptation.

If you’re single, these things are just as important to consider. Pray about them, discern how God would have you prioritize your friendships, and the time and emotional intimacy He would have you invest in them. And in the same way you reserve sexual intimacy for marriage, determine to reserve your deepest emotional intimacy for marriage, should that be God’s plan for you, as well.

3.
Different Ways to Be Friends

I think one thing that people who give a staunch and unwavering “no” to friendships between men and women might not be taking into consideration is that a proper, biblical, platonic friendship between a man and a woman isn’t going to look like a proper, biblical, platonic friendship between two women or two men.

My good friend, Darlene, and I text back and forth all the time, private message each other on Facebook, go out to lunch, and spend hours talking one on one. We even went to a conference earlier this year, driving several hundred miles back and forth and rooming together once we got there.

I am also friends with Darlene’s husband. Do I spend as much time with him? Do I spend time with him the same way I spend time with Darlene? Of course not. I talk to him at church, at fellowships, when the four of us spend time together as couples, sometimes (publicly) on social media, and the once in a blue moon informational-type e-mail. The dynamic is totally different. First of all, I’m on a lower level of “friendship intimacy” with him than I am with Darlene. Second of all, it would appear – and would be – inappropriate for me to spend time with him in the same ways I do with Darlene. And, finally, I wouldn’t want to make Darlene or my own husband uncomfortable.

I’m friends with both Darlene and her husband, but I’m friends with each of them on different levels of intimacy and I’m friends with each of them in different ways. To maintain biblical decorum, and to guard our hearts against temptation, friendships between men and women are necessarily going to look different from same gender friendships in the ways we spend time together and how much time we spend together.

4.
Can You Handle It?

An interesting dynamic about this back and forth over whether or not men and women can be friends is that, at least in the conversations I observed, men were more likely to say no, and women were more likely to be the ones promoting the idea of friendship between the sexes and not seeing a problem with it.

Ladies, we don’t get to make the across-the-board pronouncement that co-ed friendships between Christians are fine just because it wouldn’t be problematic for us. Furthermore it should give us pause that good, godly men are saying, “No. There are concerning issues here.” We need to sit down and actually listen to what they’re saying as a group and as individuals.

God created men and women differently. We are wired for relationships differently. That doesn’t mean women are wired right and men are wired wrong and they just need to get over it. It means we approach relationships differently. God created those different approaches and they are both good.

And when our brothers in Christ are saying, “We can’t handle this kind of relationship with you the way you want us to,” we need to respect and value that input into the conversation as much as we respect and value the input from our side of the aisle.

When it comes to individual friendships between a particular man and woman, that same respect and value for what another person can or can’t handle also has to hold sway. Every person is different. There are men you could put into a room full of naked women and they’d be obliviously critiquing the way the painter spackled the walls. There are other men for whom lust is such a temptation that they would have difficulty carrying on a five-minute conversation with a moderately attractive woman. Women are the same way. We all have varying levels of temptation to physical or emotional lust.

Through study of the Word, prayer, and, if you’re married, a healthy relationship with your husband, know your own limitations. Walk circumspectly, wisely, and obediently to Christ. Respect your male friends and acquaintances, and give them the space they need. They are probably trying to walk obediently, too.

Can men and women be friends? Of course. It’s how to be friends with one another that we need to pursue with wisdom, love, respect, holiness, purity of heart, and biblical propriety.

Podcast Appearances

After Thought Podcast Guest Appearance Part 1: The Open Letter to Beth Moore

 

I had a super time chatting with Lauren Hereford on the After Thought podcast. Listen in to part 1 of this episode as Lauren and I discuss my testimony, the Open Letter to Beth Moore and more!

 

Listen to part 2 here.

You can also subscribe to After Thought on iTunes and Google Play. Be sure to check out Lauren’s blog, Biblical Beginnings, too, and follow along on Facebook and Twitter!

If you’d like to sign the Open Letter to Beth Moore you’re more than welcome to do so (click the link, scroll all the way to the bottom, and leave a comment in the comment box). Also mentioned in the podcast:

An Open Letter to Beth Moore – Timeline of Events

Living Proof You Should Follow Beth (No) Moore

Women and False Teachers: Why Men Don’t Get It, and Why It’s Imperative That They Do


Got a podcast of your own or have a podcasting friend who needs a guest? Need a speaker for a women’s conference or church event? Click the “Speaking Engagements” tab at the top of this page, drop me an e-mail, and let’s chat!