Mailbag – Page 23 – Michelle Lesley

Good Monday morning, readers. It is an honor and a joy to serve you in Christ. Welcome to all the newbies and to you seasoned veterans of the blog.

Because some of y’all are new, you aren’t yet aware of all of the resources here to help you. Or maybe you’ve been around a while and haven’t noticed something that might be helpful. Let’s remedy that!

First, if you’re new (or if you’ve never read it), check out Blog Orientation for New Readers and Old Friends. It’s like a CliffsNotes intro to the blog.

Second, be sure to familiarize yourself with all of the tabs in the blue menu bar at the top of the page. That’s where I keep the info I’m most frequently asked about.

Third, there’s a search bar at the bottom of every page (and one in the blue menu bar at the top of every page) which might help you find what you need.

Fourth, if you don’t find your question answered in one of these ways or below, you might want to check previous Asked & Answered articles and The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs.

And finally, let me get you new readers some answers to the questions several of you have asked. Some of you long time friends may have missed these along the way, so I hope they’ll be helpful to you, too!

I’m a man who wants to use one of your Bible studies for my personal quiet time. Is that OK?

Is it OK for a man to teach one of your Bible studies to a co-ed class?

I don’t get this question frequently – maybe a handful of times a year – but that’s enough that I’ve added this statement to the Bible Studies tab (in the blue menu bar at the top of this page):

“From time to time I receive inquiries from men about using my studies for their personal quiet time or for teaching a co-ed or men’s Bible study class. It is my personal conviction that it is more in keeping with the spirit (though not the letter) of 1 Timothy 2:12, Titus 2:3-5, and related passages for men to use Bible study materials authored by men rather than by women. Therefore, on the honor system, I would request that men please not use my studies for personal use, or when teaching a class with male members. (Vetting the studies for your wife, daughter, or the women of your church, is, of course, fine. Encouraged, actually.)”

Is it biblical for a woman to pray at the opening of the church service?

Is it biblical for women to participate in gathering the giving on Sunday morning?

Is it OK for women to ask questions in a co-ed class or group if the pastor or teacher invites those present to do so?

Great questions! I’ve answered all of them in my article Rock Your Role FAQs. Numbers 15, 22, and 4, respectively.

Is The Bible Project a doctrinally sound teaching resource?

No. I’ve addressed that in this article. Pastor Gabe “WWUTT” Hughes has written an excellent article about the biblical (technically heretical on some points) issues with TBR. I went ahead and linked it at my Popular False Teachers and Unbiblical Trends tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page.

You seem to be saying we should talk to God during prayer, but we should not try to listen for God’s guidance during prayer…But are we not supposed to pray about big decisions before we make them? If someone is deciding on taking a different job, or moving to another state, or getting married, isn’t that person supposed to pray about making the right decision? There isn’t a passage of Scripture that says “Jane Doe should marry John Smith in AD 2022.” What about pastors, who say God “called” them into ministry?

Do you think instead of praying specifically about a decision, we are supposed to pray for wisdom according to James 1 and then make our own decision, trusting God has given us the wisdom to choose correctly?

You’re circling the bullseye. I think my article Basic Training: 8 Steps to Finding God’s Will for Your Life will help. I didn’t specifically address pastors having some sort of Damascus Road-type “calling” to the ministry in that article, but the same principles apply. The Bible doesn’t say men will receive some sort of supernatural calling to the ministry. It says, “If any [man] aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task,” (1 Timothy 3:1) and that he must meet certain biblical qualifications. If a man desires to be a pastor and he meets the biblical qualifications, he should start prayerfully putting the principles in that article into practice, trusting God to guide him in his pursuits.

As Christians, do we participate in celebratory life events of sin? For example- I had a family member (professes to follow Christ) throw a housewarming party for another family member living with her boyfriend. They bought a home together & are not married. I also had another family member (professor of Christ) become pregnant outside of marriage & naturally my family wanted to throw a big baby shower. How do those of us who honor Christ with our life handle such events?

It can be an uncomfortable invitation to receive, for sure. I’ve addressed the baby shower question in my article The Mailbag: Should I Attend the Baby Shower?. And let me just clarify a distinction between a shower for a woman who conceived out of wedlock and these other scenarios. A woman who conceived out of wedlock sinned – past tense. She may have since repented. Also, the purpose of a shower is to give her things she will need for the baby, not to celebrate or help perpetuate an ongoing sin such as the ones mentioned below. That is something to weigh if you’re trying to decide whether or not to attend a shower.

Amy and I briefly addressed the “housewarmings for shack ups” issue in our Pride, Pronouns, & Prodigals episode of A Word Fitly Spoken:

Let’s get things kicked off with a question that really came to the forefront a couple of years ago when same sex “marriage” became legal: Should Christians attend homosexual weddings?

And really, this answer also applies to any sort of event that celebrates, normalizes, or helps codify an ungodly union: events celebrating transsexualism, homosexual wedding receptions or showers, housewarming parties for a homosexual couple or even for a heterosexual couple that’s going to be living together, a celebration of adoption for a homosexual or non-married heterosexual couple, or even – I don’t know if these are still a thing or not, but divorce parties.

The short answer is, Christians should not be helping people celebrate their sin. We should be sharing the gospel with them so they can get saved out of their sin.

Attending a wedding or any of these other events implies that a person is in favor of the union or the sin that’s being committed, and no matter how much we love the person, Christ calls us to love Him more and not participate in or give approval to sin.

You might also wish to read my article The Mailbag: Should Christians Attend a Homosexual “Wedding”? since some of the same principles mentioned in it apply to these other scenarios.

You regard John MacArthur as someone who is biblically sound – I beg to differ with you, as he claims (and directly answered a question asked of him) if after taking the mark of the beast, can a person change their mind (claim Christ) and still get to heaven….his response was “yes.” Absolute unbiblical doctrine….that’s all I’m bringing up at this point – he is leading people to HELL!

No he isn’t “leading people to HELL!” and you’re making a slanderous false accusation against (assuming you’re a genuinely regenerated Believer) a brother in Christ. Repent.

This claim against John MacArthur is the urban legend that will not die, no matter how many times it’s clearly and biblically refuted (I guess because people with this attitude want to discredit him and will grasp at any straw to do so, no matter how flimsy.). It’s been going on for over ten years now. I get some form of the screaming neemie “JOHN MACARTHUR IS A FALSE TEACHER!!!!!” email or message several times a year. I’ve heard it all before and it’s all still a lie. No need to send me any more messages about it.

I’ve addressed this issue here.

Seriously, stop. Repent.

Is it wrong to bail on a Bible study if you find error in the teachings?

Nope. In fact, most of the time, I would recommend it, as long as you’re sure it’s the study, not your beliefs, that’s in error. You may find my article The Mailbag: Should I attend the “Bible” study to correct false doctrine? to be helpful.

I was wondering if you have any info on homeschooling on your site that is biblical?

Yep, on both of my sites. Amy and I recorded an A Word Fitly Spoken podcast episode on homeschooling called NOW are you ready to homeschool? And, a while back, my readers suggested some Christian homeschooling blogs here.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Husbands, pastors, and mentors- Which roles do they play in a Christian woman’s life?

January 31, 2022 Michelle Lesley

Originally published January 20, 2020

I have three questions that are kind of related to each other:

1 Corinthians 14:35 says women should ask their husbands questions at home; how does this fit with women mentoring other women in Titus 2?

Where does a husband’s role end and where does the role of a godly older woman begin in terms of teaching younger women?

Are there areas where a pastor’s authority trumps a husband’s authority?

Thank you for your help.

These are really awesome questions. I love it when women ask questions that demonstrate that they’re digging into Scripture and thinking deeply about the things of God. It’s so exciting to me!

(Before I begin answering, let me just stipulate, as I usually do in articles about marriage, that the following statements assume a normal, relatively healthy, average marriage, not abusive marriages, extremely aberrant marriages, etc. Also, it’s not my intent to leave out my single sisters, but the reader asked specifically about married women, so that’s how I’m answering the questions.)

So let’s take each question separately…

1 Corinthians 14:35 says women should ask their husbands questions at home; how does this fit with women mentoring other women in Titus 2:3-5?

The first thing we need to do when we’re addressing questions like this is to look at each of these passages in context. This is a very simple study skill that will clear up nearly all instances of supposed contradictions in Scripture.

Read 1 Corinthians 14:26-40. What is the venue for Paul’s instructions in this passage? In other words, is he telling people how to behave at home? At work? At the movies? Look at the key phrases in verses 26 (“when you come together”) and 28,33b-35 (“in church”). Paul is giving instructions for how an orderly worship service is to be conducted. He is not making a blanket statement that any time any woman wants to know anything about Scripture or God or life in general that the only person she can ever ask questions of is her husband. What he’s saying is that in order to avoid chaos in the worship service, women are to sit down and be quiet during the preaching and teaching, rather than interrupting to comment or ask questions (one of the reasons Paul says this is that the women in the Corinthian church were doing just that – interrupting the preaching and teaching with questions and comments). If you read further in chapter 14, you’ll notice he places similar restrictions on prophesying and speaking in other languages to prevent chaos and confusion during the worship service. I’ve discussed this passage in further detail in my article Rock Your Role ~ Order in His Courts: Silencing Women?

Now read Titus 2. What’s the main idea of this chapter? Is it the same as the main idea of 1 Corinthians 14 – instructions for an orderly worship service? No. Verse 12 gives a nice summary of chapter 2: “renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age.” That’s what this chapter is about. “Titus, here’s what your church members (and you) are to do and how they’re to conduct themselves as they go about the business of living as Christians in this world and in community with one another.” The older women teaching and training the younger women in verses 3-5 is not taking place during the worship service, but as these women go about daily life with one another. Today, this kind of teaching and training takes place in women’s Bible study classes, women’s fellowship groups, and in one on one discipleship, not in, nor instead of, the gathering of the whole church for worship.

So as we can see when we examine the context of both passages, 1 Corinthians 14:35 and Titus 2:3-5 are not in conflict, they’re actually in harmony, addressing two distinct ways women are to conduct themselves in two completely different venues.

Where does a husband’s role end and where does the role of a godly older woman begin in terms of teaching younger women?

I don’t think it’s really that discrete and linear, i.e. the husband teaches this list of topics the wife needs to be taught about and the godly older woman teaches that list of topics she needs to be taught about, and never the twain shall meet. It’s a much more informal and “whatever is needful at the moment” type of thing. Additionally, it’s going to vary from marriage to marriage. Some women have unsaved husbands. Some women are newly saved with husbands who have been saved for decades. Some husbands and wives are very private about everything, some are very open to others. So the balance between who (husband or older woman mentor) teaches what, and how much, and when, is going to look different in every marriage.

I would just offer a few guidelines:

• After your relationship with Christ, if you’re married, your highest allegiance is to your husband. He should be your best friend and first confidant, not a woman who’s mentoring you (or even your mother, sister, or female best friend). He should never feel like he’s in competition for your time, interest, or affinity with the woman who’s mentoring you, or that you esteem her on the same (or, perish the thought, higher) level of loyalty or emotional intimacy with him. If you’ve gotten that close to your mentor, you’re too close. Turn your attention toward your husband.

• Along those same lines, always keep in mind that God instructs you to submit to your husband, not your mentor. The only time you should ever follow your mentor’s advice over your husband’s desires is if your husband is asking you to do something the Bible clearly calls sin and your mentor is advising you to obey Scripture instead. (But even in that case, you’re not really choosing your mentor over your husband, you’re choosing to obey God rather than to sin.)

• There are some things that are private between a husband and wife that shouldn’t be shared with anyone, including a mentor. Which things? Again, that’s going to vary from marriage to marriage, but a few no no’s might include the private details of your sex life, your finances, and anything your husband would be embarrassed for someone else to know. Talk with your husband and ask if there’s anything he would rather you didn’t share with your mentor.

Are there areas where a pastor’s authority trumps a husband’s authority?

It really depends on what you have in mind when you ask that question.

If you’re talking about personal decisions made between a husband and wife, let’s say, for instance, whether or not to move to a certain part of town or whether or not the wife should take a part time job, it is not the pastor’s place to step in and overrule the husband’s decision, nor should the pastor have any expectation that the couple would obey any edicts he issues. If the couple goes to him for counseling or asks for his advice, he can certainly give it, but we never see any place in Scripture where a pastor has authority over another family’s decisions. The husband is responsible before God for leading his family, not the pastor.

But if you’re talking about a situation in the church, then yes, a pastor’s (or the elders’) authority – assuming he’s abiding by Scripture – trumps a husband’s authority, and pretty much every other church member’s authority as well. For example, a husband does not have the authority to walk up to the pastor and say, “I’m going to let my wife preach the sermon next Sunday,” or “My wife is going to take over this Sunday School classroom and use it as her personal office.”. If a husband were to say something like that, the pastor is well within his authority as shepherd of the church to say, “Oh no she’s not.”. The buck stops with the pastor when it comes to how the church runs, and he is responsible before God for making godly decisions for the church.

I’m aware that there are aberrant, fringe “churches” (many of them are some stripe of New Apostolic Reformation or extreme legalism/fundamentalism) out there in which the “pastor” has ultimate authority over every decision a family makes: where they live, how many children they have, what to name their children, whether and where each spouse should work, etc. If you’re in a so-called church like that, leave immediately and find a doctrinally sound church to join. A church doesn’t plunge to that depth of spiritual abuse without succumbing to other dangerous false doctrines along the way.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Second Degree / Secondary Separation?

January 24, 2022January 10, 2025 Michelle Lesley

In your articles about false teachers you state as one of your reasons for recommending against a teacher: “The pastor or teacher cannot currently and unrepentantly be partnering with or frequently appearing with false teachers. This is a violation of Scripture.”

You seem to be advocating what our church calls, ‘Second Degree Separation’. An example would be, “We separate from Joel Osteen because he is a false teacher and we separate from Bob because Bob often appears with Joel Osteen.” Are you advocating Second Degree Separation?

I’ve never received this question before, but I thought it was a really good one, not just for those who might be wondering the same thing, but to explain a doctrine the average Christian probably isn’t familiar with.

If you’re not familiar with “Secondary” or “Second Degree” separation, the person who asked the question gave a very clear example of the gist of it. Got Questions provides a similar example, goes into a little more detail, and makes some very good points. (We’re going to circle back to that article in just a minute.)

The short answer to the reader’s question is “No.” I neither subscribe to, nor apply, the law of secondary separation when considering whether or not to recommend a teacher. I do exactly what I’ve always encouraged all of you to do: compare a teacher’s teaching and behavior to rightly handled Scripture.

Here is why I recommend that you not follow “Bob” (teachers who yoke in ministry with false teachers like “Joel Osteen”):

1. When “Bob” yokes with people he knows or has been biblically warned are false teachers, he is willfully and unrepentantly disobeying Scripture. I would warn women not to follow any teacher who’s willfully and unrepentantly, despite biblical warning and correction from others, participating in any sin. If, for example, Joyce Meyer were 100% doctrinally sound and yoked with no other false teachers, but were living in unrepentant adultery or embezzling, I would still warn women away from her.

And, I’d like to emphasize regarding all the “Bobs” I recommend against:

Yoking with false teachers is not a one time “oopsie” for “Bob”. All of these “Bobs” frequently yoke with false teachers. (Alistair Begg spoke at a 2019 conference that Beth Moore also spoke at, either because he didn’t realize the depths of the issues with her, or he didn’t know she was going to be asked to speak at the time he agreed to speak, or because once he found out she was going to speak, he considered it too late to cancel. To my knowledge, he hasn’t done so since, and he’s on my list of recommended Bible teachers¹.) Doctrinally sound teachers make the occasional honest mistake. That’s not what we’re dealing with here. “Bob” doesn’t think yoking with these teachers is a mistake or a sin, and he keeps on doing it.
Even if “Bob” didn’t initially know “Joel Osteen” was a false teacher when he yoked with him the first time (which, as a responsible Bible teacher and Christian, he should have), he’s been informed, warned, and rebuked by multiple people. (When Alistair Begg¹ decided to go through with speaking at the aforementioned conference, his followers came absolutely unglued, and he heard about it. I personally witnessed many people telling him he shouldn’t be appearing with her and why.)

2. On top of directly disobeying Scripture, habitually and unrepentantly yoking with false teachers demonstrates that “Bob” either does not understand Scripture and doctrine well enough, or does not care about Scripture and doctrine enough to be teaching it to anybody. Why? Because he either does not know or is ignoring the Scriptures that the false teachers he’s yoking with are violating. He is not doing his best to “present himself as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15), and he’s one of the “many” who should not become teachers because he can’t stand up to the stricter judgment James 3:1 talks about.

3. Particularly for pastors (but I see no biblical reason not to apply the same standard to other male and female Bible teachers), yoking with false teachers disqualifies him from the pastorate / eldership, and that’s not somebody I’m going to recommend that anyone follow. Titus 1:9, part of the biblical qualifications for pastors / elders, says: “He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.” When “Bob” partners with false teachers, he’s not rebuking those who contradict sound doctrine, he’s giving approval to them and their false teaching. He is committing pastoral malpractice and betraying the God-given duty of his office. That’s not the kind of person anybody should be looking up to, following, or receiving teaching from.

4. False teachers influence those who keep company with them. When “Bob” yokes with “Joel Osteen”, “Joel’s” false doctrine is influencing “Bob”: Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.” 1 Corinthians 15:33 Birds of a feather flock together. When you lie down with the dogs, you get up with the fleas. I haven’t run across a single “Bob” who is doctrinally sound in all areas except for yoking with false teachers. All the “Bobs” I recommend against are biblically problematic in other areas of their theology as well.

And just to be clear, the “Bobs” I recommend against are not appearing at a conference with “Joel Osteen” or preaching at his “church” and rebuking him or correcting his false doctrine (see #3 above). “Bob” is either preaching basically the same thing as “Joel,” or his preaching is flying enough under the radar that “Joel” doesn’t think “Bob” is disagreeing with him. If “Joel” thought “Bob” was rebuking him, that would be the last time “Bob” was ever invited to speak at “Joel’s” conference or “church”.

And that’s what I want to circle back to in the Got Questions article linked above. The example of secondary separation they give is this:

Secondary separation works like this:
a) Mr. False is a heretic, teaching a false gospel.
b) We refuse to associate with Mr. False (and rightly so).
c) Mr. True, who is a sound, biblical teacher, speaks at a conference where Mr. False is also speaking.
d) We now refuse to associate with Mr. True, because of his association with Mr. False.

Point “c” is a false premise, because Secondary Separation assumes “Mr. True” is doctrinally sound. First of all, if “Mr. True” is known to be a doctrinally sound, Titus 1:9 preacher, he doesn’t get invited to speak at conferences that also invite heretics. Outside of debates (which are different from conferences), it just doesn’t happen. Second, I would challenge anyone to show me a “sound, biblical teacher” (“Mr. True”) who would knowingly (see #1 above) agree to speak at a conference with a heretic. Part of being a “sound, biblical teacher” is being discerning and obeying Titus 1:9 and all the other Scriptures that command us to rebuke, expose, and stay away from false teachers. In other words, if “Mr. True” is knowingly and non-rebukingly yoking with false teachers, he is, by definition, not a “sound, biblical teacher”.

5. Yoking with false teachers introduces “Bob’s” followers to those false teachers. When “Bob” yokes with “Joel Osteen,” his followers understand him to be saying, “I approve of Joel and agree (or at least don’t disagree much) with his teaching.”. “Bob” has just introduced his followers to a false teacher, and many of them will start following “Joel” and being deceived by him. This is one of the foundational reasons why Scripture tells us to stay away from false teachers – it’s confusing to others and can lead them astray.

So when I warn against “Bob” for yoking in ministry with “Joel,” I’m not making the statement, “I believe in and apply the law of Second Degree Separation.” It’s much more an issue of, “Is the type of person who habitually and unrepentantly yokes with false teachers really the type of person you should receive teaching from and be influenced by?”. I think the Bible’s answer to that question is a clear and resounding “No.”.

¹UPDATE: Since the original publication of this article, I have removed Alistair Begg from my list of recommended teachers, not because of this incident, but because it has come to my attention that he believes it’s OK for women to preach to / teach men as long as they’re doing so “under the authority” of the pastor / elders. Although he still seems to be a generally doctrinally sound teacher, this idea is unbiblical, and I cannot proactively recommend someone who holds to it.

Additional Resources:

Justin Peters and Todd Friel on Secondary Separation

Answering the Opposition- Responses to the Most Frequently Raised Discernment Objections

Is She a False Teacher? 7 Steps to Figuring It Out on Your Own

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Modesty and having a male OB-GYN (Plus: “I’m working on it.”)

January 17, 2022January 16, 2022 Michelle Lesley

Similar to the public breastfeeding question, what is your perspective regarding women having male gynecologists? It seems to me they would be just as vulnerable to lust as any other man.

Well…it certainly would seem so, but I think this situation is a bit different. Great thinking, though!

Scripture is clear that godly women are to dress modestly in public…

and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 1 Corinthians 12:23
likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 1 Timothy 2:9

…and that men are committing adultery of the heart when they lust after women:

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:28

My article, The Mailbag: Should Christian Women Cover Up While Breastfeeding addresses a public situation in which there are several alternatives to a woman exposing her breasts to any and every passerby, and most of them are not earth-shatteringly inconvenient. Furthermore, the men in a public setting who may see a woman who’s nursing are random onlookers who have no business seeing her…um…business.

Having an OB-GYN exam isn’t quite that simple nor is it the same. An OB-GYN has to look at, and touch, your exposed anatomy. You can’t cover up and still receive a proper exam. And that’s what an OB-GYN signed on for. He expects to see, and assumes responsibility for seeing exposed female anatomy as part of his job. That’s not the case for random men in a public place. Those men do not expect to, nor agree to see women’s exposed body parts when they go to the store or the dentist or the library. There’s an assumption that people in public places will have their body parts covered. And speaking of public places, an OB-GYN exam does not take place in public, but in private. You’re not exposed for the world to see, only for the professionally trained doctor who’s performing a specific service for you that not just anyone is qualified to perform. Scripture’s admonitions to women about modesty pertain to dressing modestly in public. That applies to nursing in public. It does not apply to undressing for a doctor’s appointment in private.

Another thing we need to keep in mind when considering this issue is that seeing a certain body part doesn’t automatically equal lust for every man. When you’re out in public exposed to a bunch of random men, it’s likely lust is an issue for many of them because for the vast majority of men, female nudity is connected only to one thing – sex. But when you’re seeing a trained OB-GYN, it’s unlikely he’s lusting after you because his main connection – 40 hours a week or more – to exposed female anatomy is work. He’s used to looking at female anatomy all day every day, and he’s used to looking at it in a professional, clinical, sterile context, not in the context of sex, so that, in the context of his work, he probably doesn’t give your anatomy any more thought than an ENT who’s treating your ear infection or a gastroenterologist who’s treating your ulcer. Any OB-GYN who struggles with the sin of lust in that situation needs to get a new job, just like anyone who struggles with gluttony probably shouldn’t be working at the Krispy Kreme, and anyone who struggles with greed, coveting, and stealing shouldn’t be working at a bank.

If it makes you uncomfortable to have a male OB-GYN, you can certainly use a female doctor instead, if that’s an option, but sometimes it isn’t. You might live in a small town where the only OB-GYN is a male. Your insurance company may not happen to offer a female OB-GYN as one of their preferred providers. You might go into labor while your female OB is on vacation and the only doctors covering for her are male.

Bottom line: It’s very unlikely your exposed anatomy is causing your OB-GYN to lust after you, and if he does, that’s on him, not on you, because, in the context of his exam room, you’re not disobeying Scripture’s admonition to dress modestly in public.

I’m working on it, I promise.

A whole passel of y’all have asked me two questions of late:

1. What do you know about The Bible Recap with Tara-Leigh Cobble? Is it doctrinally sound? Should I use the books, podcast, or Bible reading plan? What about D-Group?

As long-time readers may know, I hiatus every year from about mid-November to early January. I run a lot of holiday-themed article reruns, I don’t create a lot of new content, and I lay off the research. The questions about TBR / TLC started flooding in around Decemberish in the middle of my hiatus, so I’ve only just started my research on this. I’m listening to the podcast and I’ll start digging in to the other aspects of TBR / TLC soon. I know you want answers, but I also know you don’t want a knee-jerk, poorly substantiated answer. I’ll get it to you as soon as I can, either here or on the podcast.

In the meantime, if you’ve run across anything problematic with TBR / TLC, I’d appreciate a heads up. Email me with the specifics: links, page numbers, screenshots, exact quotes, video, etc.

2. I’ve heard Francine Rivers’ book Redeeming Love is being made into a movie. Can you comment on this? The book seems so explicit for a Christian novel. Is it OK for teenage girls to read the book or watch the movie?

Well, I bit the bullet (I really don’t like romances, secular or Christian), checked the book out of the library, and I’m a little over halfway finished. I plan to see the movie soon. Two things on this:

First, if you have specific concerns (not just “this is an awful book” or other generalities), about the book or movie, email me.

Next, it’s my understanding that RL has been revised several times over the years. The one I’m reading is the 1997 / 2007 copyright version. If you’ve read that version and any more recent versions and you’ve noticed major differences between them that would affect whether I would give the book a thumbs up or thumbs down, can you please email me and let me know?

Thanks for your patient understanding and your help.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Is it OK for women to teach the children’s sermon?

January 10, 2022January 10, 2022 Michelle Lesley

What your views are on a woman giving a children’s talk as part of an all age service? I am part of our children’s ministry team, and did the Bible talk at our recent Christmas family service. It was a talk aimed at the children, and delivered to them, although it was an all age service, and the gospel message is always for everyone. Would this be ok? My understanding has always been that a woman’s ministry within the church can be to children or to other women, and under the authority of men.

Great question! It’s always good to examine the things we do – even after the fact – in light of Scripture. Just because your pastor, husband, or someone else in authority tells you it’s biblically OK, doesn’t necessarily mean it is. And if even if it is biblically OK, you shouldn’t be doing it if it means violating your conscience.

For those who might not be familiar with what this reader is referring to, a word of explanation: Some churches, as a part of their regular Sunday worship service and/or Christmas Eve service, set aside a few minutes for a talk aimed at children, or a “children’s sermon”. Normally, the pastor (or sometimes the children’s director, or a children’s teacher) will sit down on the edge of the platform and invite all the children in the sanctuary to come sit around him. He tells a brief story or illustration with a simple spiritual point, asks a question or two, sends them back to their seats, and the worship service commences.

So, is it OK if a leader in the children’s ministry who’s a woman, gives the children’s sermon, since there are grown men in the congregation who are watching and listening? Does this violate Scripture’s prohibition against women instructing men in the Scriptures during the gathering of the church body?

(At this point, some may be wondering if it’s even biblical for a woman to serve as a children’s director. Short answer: Yes, as long as Scriptural parameters are observed. Longer answer: Click here – #21)

I’m going to land on “no” on this one. Not because it’s a direct violation of 1 Timothy 2:12, but for several other reasons:

I don’t know who invented the children’s sermon or what his (or her) rationale was, but where is the biblical support or command for this practice, regardless of who’s teaching it? We don’t see it in New Testament narrative accounts of the church. We don’t see it instructed or practiced in the epistles. And we sure don’t see any sort of counterpart to it in Old Testament descriptions of temple worship.

Some would probably cite the “let the little children come to Me” incident in the gospels, but here’s why that passage doesn’t work to support the practice of children’s sermons:

it’s a descriptive passage (a description of what happened), not a prescriptive passage (a command or instruction to be obeyed)

the parents spontaneously brought their children to Jesus for him to bless them and pray for them – it wasn’t a time of teaching or a children’s “sermon”

it wasn’t part of a worship service

the church didn’t exist yet

your pastor (or children’s ministry workers) isn’t Jesus

Children’s sermons during the worship service are unnecessary:

“But it gives the children an age-appropriate Bible lesson!” That’s your job, Mom and Dad. You are supposed to be the primary teachers and disciplers of your children. Age-appropriate Bible lessons are also what Sunday School and children’s discipleship classes are for.
“But it gives the children a part of the worship service they can understand!” Take it from a veteran mom – your children understand a whole lot more than you give them credit for. Set the bar high and help them reach it, don’t dumb things down for them.
“But it makes the children feel like a part of the worship service!” The biblically appropriate way to do that is to train them for worship. Help them learn the songs that will be sung so they can join in the singing. Show them where to find the sermon passage in their Bible. Devise a simple way for them to take notes. Train them to pray.

“But it makes the children feel like they’re special to the pastor when he takes time out of the worship service just for them!” Making a certain sector of the congregation feel like they’re special to the pastor – where does the Bible say that’s one of the purposes of a worship service? Besides, there are plenty of other ways to accomplish this. The pastor can guest teach or just drop by the children’s Sunday School class occasionally, take the time to talk to kids in the hall or before or after church, or participate in other children’s activities. The purpose of a worship service is not for any of us to feel special, it’s to focus all our energy on worshiping God. That’s the lesson we need to be teaching the kids.

Children’s sermons during the worship service are a disruption. They not only disrupt the flow of the worship service for the entire congregation, but as most moms can tell you, they get the kids all stirred up. Just when you’ve managed to get Junior all settled in and sitting quietly, it’s time to jump up, run down to the front of the sanctuary, wiggle around and poke and play with the other kids for about two minutes while the children’s sermon is going on, and then run back to mom and dad. Then you’ve got to start the settling down process all over again. And heaven help you if whoever’s doing the children’s sermon passes out candy at the end of it.

As I was putting this article together, I bounced it off one of my pastors, Laramie Minga, whose area of focus is worship¹. He raised a couple of good points:

“The children’s sermon teaches a consumer mindset.”
I agree. It subtly imparts the message to kids that they should expect to be pandered to and that the worship service (or at least that part of it) is about them, and making them happy, not about worshiping God.

I also think a valid argument could be made that setting aside part of the worship service for a certain segment of the congregation crosses the line into showing partiality, which we’re commanded in James not to do.

“When the children’s sermon comes from a woman, it conditions the children to find it acceptable to be taught or preached to by a woman in the worship service when they grow up.”
I can’t argue with that. And in this day and age of biblical illiteracy and the rampant conflation of everything under the sun, if the church where the children’s sermon (taught by a woman) holds an anemic or unclear position on the role of women in the church, the adults in the congregation who don’t know their Bibles well on this issue are not going to draw a distinction between a woman teaching the children’s sermon and a woman preaching the regular sermon to the whole congregation: “What’s the difference between her preaching to the children in our hearing and her preaching the real sermon to all of us?” they surmise.

So, should a woman be teaching the children’s sermon? I would have to answer your question with one of my own: Why are we even having children’s sermons as part of the worship service?

¹Laramie (along with Scott Aniol, Josh Buice, Matt Sikes, and Owen Strachan) will be teaching at G3’s upcoming Biblical worship workshop, February 8-9. I highly recommend it for any pastor or potential pastor (it’s open to men only).