Category: Mailbag

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Is lust a sin for women, too?

Michelle Lesley

Originally published September 17, 2018

In the past, I’ve had lots of trouble wondering about my desire and tendency to look at, and get excited by, physically attractive men, especially men who reveal a lot of themselves in underwear modeling and soft-core porn. I think this is a sin, but I’m not sure.

I’ve gotten mixed reactions when I’ve mentioned this to people. There are some who say that, yes, this is the sin of lust. Yet there are others who have told me that women cannot possibly struggle with lust, only men do. I once dealt with one particular man who was very dogmatic that God created men and women to be tempted differently, and that lust is not a temptation women deal with, so he dismissed my struggles with this subject.

When I tried to search Scripture, using Matthew 5:28, it would also seem that this is a male-only sin. So is it OK for me to keep looking at male models, including underwear modeling and soft-core porn?

This is an awesome question for three reasons. First, you’re concerned about whether or not you’re sinning with the aim of mortifying this behavior if it is a sin. Second, you’re not relying on your own feelings, opinions, or experiences to determine whether or not this is a sin, you’re turning to Scripture to find out. Those are both very encouraging things. They demonstrate that the Holy Spirit is working in your heart to sanctify you and make you more like Christ. Third, it gives us an opportunity to take a look at the Scriptures in more depth and give an example of handling God’s Word correctly and in context for everyone reading this article. So, thank you for asking!

The short answer to your question is, yes, lust is sinful for the women who experience it just as much as it is for the men who experience it. But I don’t want you to just take my word for it, so let’s look at why.

The Scripture you’ve cited, Matthew 5:28, is definitely one of the passages that addresses this issue. It says:

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I suspect this verse might be the reason the man you spoke with said that lust is a male-only sin, because this particular verse speaks to men lusting after women. However, to make a blanket statement that because God created men and women differently, lust is never a temptation for women is foolhardy and shows a lack of biblical knowledge and understanding as well as a denial of reality.

Let’s address reality first. It is true that God created men in such a way that they are more likely to be sexually stimulated by what they see than women are. However, that does not mean that no woman anywhere has ever experienced lust. God also created men in such a way that men are usually taller and stronger than women and women are usually more emotionally expressive than men. But we can look around us and see that some women are taller or stronger than some men, and some men are more emotionally expressive than some women.

Furthermore, while you really can’t do anything about how tall you are (and, to some extent, how strong you are), lust is something that can be introduced to women and encouraged in women by culture. A hundred years ago, it would have been unthinkable to see advertisements featuring nearly naked men, or strip clubs with male dancers, or pornography aimed at women, so readily available and with so little shame attached. And at that time there were probably far fewer women who struggled with the sin of lust.

These days, it’s right there on your phone or computer or TV or at the bachelorette party for your friend. Lust, lewd behavior, and lurid talk by women are actually encouraged by the feminist movement. (If men are going to objectify women with lust and porn, we’re going to objectify them right back. Really? This is equality? The right to sink to the same depth of degradation as the scuzziest of men? No thanks.) Watch any sitcom or drama on TV. You’ll see it soon enough. And, of course, there’s money to be made by making women into consumers of porn and other sexual material, so the businesses that peddle these things encourage women to lust as well. All of which means that today, just a hundred years later, far more women are struggling with the sin of lust.

So we can see that the reality is that lust is a temptation experienced by some women, even though men are more prone to it.

But is lust a sin for women if Matthew 5:28 is speaking in terms of men lusting? Yes. There are a couple of different reasons for this, one cultural, and one biblical.

Let’s go cultural first to understand more clearly why this particular verse is addressed to men rather than men and women. We start off with the knowledge that men are much more likely to experience lust than women. Then we take the culture of the time into account.

Jesus spoke these words in a patriarchal society. In His culture, there were no women in positions of authority and power. Men ran the political system, the religious system, and men were the heads of their households. (By the way, despite what our culture today would say, this wasn’t a bad thing in and of itself. In fact, most of this was perfectly biblical.) Normally, women were not educated, and they depended on men – first their fathers, then their husbands, and finally, their grown sons – to take care of them their entire lives.

So when Jesus was teaching to the crowds as with the Sermon on the Mount (which Matthew 5 is part of) the cultural understanding was that He was primarily teaching the men, and any women and children they brought with them were basically along for the ride. Indeed, many would have thought the women incapable of understanding teaching (since they were intellectually inferior to men) or unworthy of receiving teaching (because God had created them as “lesser” than men).

The Jewish understanding that Jesus was primarily teaching the men would have been similar. Rabbis didn’t teach women, they taught men. Any intentional biblical instruction women received would have been from their fathers or husbands at home. We can see further evidence of this cultural and Jewish understanding in several different Scriptures. A few examples:

At the feeding of the five thousand, the feeding of the four thousand, and some other New Testament “crowd scenes”, the crowd is numbered by the number of men present.

Both the woman at the well herself and the disciples “marveled” that Jesus was speaking with a woman.

Due to Martha’s cultural and Jewish understanding of women’s roles, Jesus had to explain to her that it was OK – even good – for Mary to sit at His feet and learn.

At Pentecost, Luke refers to the “multitude” as “devout men“, and Peter addresses this crowd as “men of Judea“, “men of Israel“, and “brothers“.

So, in Jesus’ secular and Jewish cultural context, He was understandably speaking to the men present. (And what was He telling these men who lived in a world that taught them that women were inferior to men, and that men could regard and treat women any way they wanted to? Jesus elevates the status of women by telling the men they’ve got to respect women even in their hearts. They’ve got to respect their wives by not committing adultery with other women in their hearts, and they’ve got to respect those other women by not using them as objects of sexual gratification in their hearts.) It would have been an unnecessary distraction from His message to address the women directly, and it would certainly have been viewed as inappropriate, maybe even perverted, for Jesus to have suggested that women lusted after men.

So Jesus’ culture, and the fact that lust is largely a sin committed by men, required Him to address this remark to men. But those two things do not have any bearing on the intrinsic sinfulness of lust itself, and they do not mean that this instruction applies only to men. In the section of Matthew 5 preceding the section on lust, Jesus deals with the sin of being angry with your “brother”. Does this mean anger is only sinful if you’re angry with a man instead of a woman? The section of Matthew 5 immediately following the section on lust says men may not divorce their wives except for unfaithfulness. Does this mean women are free to divorce their husbands for any reason? Of course not.

But it’s important to remember that Matthew 5:28 is not the only passage of Scripture that deals with lust. Let’s look at some others.

These passages describe lust as female attribute:

a wild donkey used to the wilderness, in her heat sniffing the wind! Who can restrain her lust?
Jeremiah 2:24a

Oholah played the whore while she was mine, and she lusted after her lovers…everyone after whom she lusted…the Assyrians, after whom she lusted…Her sister Oholibah saw this, and she became more corrupt than her sister in her lust and in her whoring, which was worse than that of her sister. She lusted after the Assyrians…all of them desirable young men.
Ezekiel 23:5a,7b,11,12a,c,

Ezekiel even describes Oholibah viewing pictures of men lustfully. Doesn’t it sound like a woman viewing pornography?:

But she carried her whoring further. She saw men portrayed on the wall, the images of the Chaldeans portrayed in vermilion, wearing belts on their waists, with flowing turbans on their heads, all of them having the appearance of officers, a likeness of Babylonians whose native land was Chaldea. When she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea.
Ezekiel 23:14-16

In the Jeremiah passage, the lusting woman represents Israel. In Ezekiel, Oholah represents Samaria, and Oholibah represents Jerusalem. So these are not individual women lusting, rather, God is using the illustration of a woman lusting after her “lovers” to describe the unspeakable abomination of Israel’s idolatry. He was using the severest language He could to disgust His people over their sin and move them to repent and turn back to Him. God could have chosen any sin – male lust, robbery, murder, etc. – to represent how horrific their idolatry was to Him, but what did He choose? Female lust. Let that sink in.

Romans 1:18-32 clearly refers to the sins of both men and women, with verse 24 stating:

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

These passages speak of lust in neutral, rather than male or female, terms:

and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion
2 Peter 2:10a

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
1 John 2:16

Lust is a form of coveting – the greedy yearning to have something that God has not given to you or has given to someone else, and that is certainly not limited to men. Also notice in these passages that you can covet a person, and that coveting is often linked to sensuality or sexual immorality.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
Exodus 20:17

coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.
Mark 7:22-23

But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints…For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Ephesians 5:3,5

Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Colossians 3:5

Finally, lusting after another person – adulterous coveting – is not loving your neighbor:

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Romans 13:9

When you look at another person with lust, you are loving yourself. You are thinking selfishly about how that person could gratify your base desires, make you feel good, serve you. That is the antithesis of everything Jesus taught and stood for. Our Master, the One we follow and strive to be like, said:

For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.
Mark 10:45

Jesus came to die on a cruel rugged cross to pay for the sins of the flesh. He would never have thought of using another person to gratify His own selfish desires. How could we?

Is lust a sin for women too? Absolutely. Stop it. Repent. Receive the merciful grace and forgiveness Christ offers.

Additional Resources:

Just Stop It: Instructions on how to repent at The Cripplegate

Hey, Porn Addict: Stop It by Gabriel Hughes

How do you stop looking at porn? at When We Understand the Text

God Over Porn

Every Woman’s Silent Struggle: Fighting Lust with Sisters in Christ by Marian Jacobs

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Potpourri (Leslie who?… Can I get divorced?… Were Jesus and Mary Magdalene married?)

Michelle Lesley

Welcome to another “potpourri” edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question.

I like to take the opportunity in these potpourri editions to let new readers know about my comments/e-mail/messages policy. I’m not able to respond individually to most e-mails and messages, so here are some helpful hints for getting your questions answered more quickly. Remember, the search bar (at the very bottom of each page) can be a helpful tool!

Or maybe I answered your question already? Check out my article The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs to see if your question has been answered and to get some helpful resources.

Dear Leslie,

Hi there! I’m so glad you’ve dropped me an email or social media comment or message. I love all to pieces those of you who make this mistake, but just so you’ll know, my first name is not “Leslie”. In fact, I have four names, a first name, middle name, maiden name, and married name, and none of those names are “Leslie”.

My name is:

Michelle Lesley

Michelle is my first1 name. Two “L’s”. Lesley is my last name. It ends with an -ey, not an -ie.

Like I said, if you’ve ever made the mistake of addressing me in writing by my first name as “Leslie,” no worries! I’m certainly not mad or upset, just amused and, after so many years of this happening, dying of curiosity. My name is clearly and prominently stated on my blog, my Facebook and X pages, and in my email address. I can kinda understand misspelling my last name with an “-ie,” but I’m not sure how some people think my last name is my first name. (It can’t be autocorrect. Autocorrect only “corrects” misspelled words, it doesn’t flip flop them, and it’s not going to autocorrect “Michelle” to “Leslie”. Right? I mean, autocorrect isn’t that bad, is it?)

Help me solve this mystery, readers, and you’ll have my undying gratitude!😀

In the meantime, I’ll just be sitting over here, thankful that I didn’t marry the first guy I was engaged to, whose last name was Stanley.😳 (Y’all wouldn’t really call me “Stanley” as my first name, would you?😂)

1Technically, Michelle is my middle name. I have always gone by my middle name, mostly because very few people can pronounce or spell my first name without being taught. No, I’m not going to say what it is, because I’m trying to quash confusion here, not create more, and one more name would just create more confusion.

(From Michelle: This reader’s lengthy email has been extensively edited and summarized. Suffice it to say, the summary does not do justice to the detailed description of egregious events she sent me.)

My husband and I have been living apart and separated for the past 10 years. During the first three years of our marriage, he committed adultery multiple times with multiple women (even fathering a child with one woman), was physically abusive, and would not hold a job, so that I had to support our family.

My country does not allow divorce, only annulment, which costs $5000. Neither I, nor my estranged husband can afford this, however he has moved on and married again due to becoming a Muslim (Islam allows multiple wives). I want to move on with my life, too, but how?

I want to be right with God. I am a new Christian and I don’t have a permanent church yet, or I would talk to my own pastor. I have tried to reach out to other pastors. Some, I’ve been unable to meet with because I’m not a member of their church. Others tell me I cannot get a divorce and that there are no biblical grounds for divorce or annulment (most churches in my country take the permanence view of marriage).

Do I have biblical grounds to file for divorce/annulment? Can I remarry?

Honey, I’m so sorry you’re going through this terrible situation. I know it must be very difficult.

Let me start by saying that, first, I’m not crazy about the concept of annulment after several years of marriage, because an annulment is basically a declaration that the marriage never took place. And after three years and having a child together, that’s a hard argument to make. A marriage did take place, it was just a really bad one. Additionally, I don’t know how your country defines and applies it, so I’m mainly going to stick to divorce, here.

Second, to provide context for the rest of my answer, I do not hold to the permanence view. Scripture makes clear that divorce is permissible (not required, and certainly not preferable to reconciliation if that’s at all possible, but permissible) but for Christians in the case of adultery or abandonment, and it sounds like your husband is profusely guilty of both.

So, yes, you have biblical grounds for divorce, but your country doesn’t permit it, so that’s a moot point in your situation. You can save up for an annulment, but it would only be biblical to apply for one if you can honestly meet one or more of your country’s requirements. If there’s a legal possibility of going to another country to obtain a divorce, you can also explore that option. But, from the way you’ve described your situation to me, it sounds like you’re pretty much relegated to living out the permanence view whether you like it, or agree with it, or not. And that means no, until your husband dies or you find some legal and biblical means to a divorce, you may not remarry.

I know that’s bad news that you don’t really want to hear, and I sympathize that it’s a bitter pill to swallow. But I would encourage you to do a few things in this undesirable situation:

○ Give 1 Corinthians 7, particularly verse 17 through the end of the chapter, a good study. It was written for people in similar situations to yours: new Believers married to unbelievers. Notice Paul’s reassurance that “blooming where God planted you,” so to speak, is OK, and consider your situation in light of that.

Brothers, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.

1 Corinthians 7:24

God knew all about your husband and your marriage before He saved you, and He knows your circumstances now, because He’s the one who has you there. He may or may not change those circumstances. All you have to do is get up every day and walk in obedience to Him that day.

○ Study Philippians 4, particularly the part about contentment. We all have to learn how to be content in whatever circumstances God places us in.

○ Pray. Ask God to resolve this situation for His glory and your good. Ask Him to help you be obedient to Him in the meantime. Thank Him for the work He is doing in your heart through this situation to grow you in Christ. Pray for your husband. Ask your brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for you.

While you’re doing all of that, the most important thing you can do is to find a doctrinally sound local church to join. Meet with your pastor and get some godly counsel from him. Perhaps he can even point you to a godly older woman in your church who has been through something similar who can disciple you through this.

We all face circumstances that are difficult and unpleasant, but God uses those things to sanctify us.

I’m a little embarrassed to admit that I am one who used to believe that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and had children. Can we know for certain that is false? Why would that be a bad thing? Maybe it was meant to be kept out of the Bible for protection of the lineage? I don’t mean any disrespect to Jesus for the questioning more for my own closure. 

Hey, we all used to believe things that we look back in embarrassment on now. But there’s no need to be embarrassed about that any more than we should be embarrassed that we wore diapers or drank from a bottle when we were babies. Nobody is born mature, and nobody is born again spiritually mature with all her theological ducks in a row. And that’s a blessing, because if you were, you wouldn’t be able to look back over your life and see how much the Lord has grown you!

If someone came to me and tried to argue that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and had children, I would ask her to show me where – chapter and verse of black and white, written on the page Scripture – the Bible says that. I would encourage you to try that on yourself. Search the Scriptures forward, backward, and upside down. You’re not going to find it. It wasn’t kept out of the Bible to protect Jesus’ lineage, rather, it wasn’t put in the Bible in the first place because it didn’t happen.

This fairytale is called an “argument from silence”. Scripture doesn’t explicitly say Jesus and Mary M. weren’t married (probably because it never entered the gospel authors’ minds that anybody would ever come up with that dumb of a lie) so the overactive, addled imagination of some heretic somewhere came up with the idea and tried to cram it in between the lines. Following that line of logic, how do we know Jesus didn’t have any Martians as disciples? How do we know the Israelites didn’t eat pizza in the wilderness? How do we know Noah didn’t have a Jacuzzi on the ark? This is not how Christians handle Scripture. This is how scoffers and mockers handle Scripture.

But this is an especially ridiculous (not you, but whoever came up with it) idea because it’s about Jesus. Just off the top of my head:

  • The Bible isn’t going to leave out that major of a detail about Jesus’ life. That would be equivalent to God lying to those of us who weren’t there to see for ourselves whether or not He was married.
  • Being married would have interfered with and been a distraction from Jesus’ ministry. He would have had to work to support His family, spend time with them, and train His children. Jesus was an itinerant evangelist. He didn’t have a job. He didn’t even have a home. His ministry took up all His time. None of that is conducive to having a wife and children, especially with Old Testament teachings and cultural expectations for husbands and fathers. Besides, 1 Corinthians 7:32-34 says:


One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. But one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and his interests have been divided.

  • Jesus was famous. Tens of thousands of people observed Him during His life. Among that many people, you can’t possibly keep a secret as big as a marriage and children.
  • Aside from the fact that it’s nowhere even hinted at in the gospels, none of the authors of Scripture mention it in any of the other books of the New Testament. Marriage and fatherhood are taught extensively in the New Testament. If Jesus had been a husband and father, why wouldn’t the New Testament authors have pointed to Him as the perfect example of both? They certainly point to Him plenty of times as our perfect example of other things.
  • No credible extra-biblical historical works, letters, or other materials mention Jesus being married and having children.

It would not have been sinful for Jesus to have been married with children if that had been God’s plan for Him. But Jesus had a lot of work to do in a short amount of time. He didn’t need the added distraction and responsibility of being a husband and father. What’s sinful here is for someone to lie about Jesus being married and having children, or to repeat the lie to others and confuse them. I’m sorry someone did that to you.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Elder crusading for approval of unbiblical missions organization

Michelle Lesley

I want to handle a situation biblically. I am on my church’s mission committee. We have been asked to support [a parachurch missions organization, henceforth, “PMO”]. Several members of the committee have voiced concerns over the PMO’s position on CRT [Critical Race Theory] and LQBTQ issues. We have provided evidence in the form of video and internal PMO documents. We voted not to support this PMO, but after the meeting, the elder who oversees our committee emailed and said we can only voice issues if we have evidence from the PMO’s public website, and he has scheduled a meeting for us to listen to the PMO’s representatives share their ministry because he believes we are misrepresenting it. I do not want to attend this meeting. I am not even sure if I should continue serving on the committee. He only gave us 24 hours notice of the meeting. How should I respond?

(I have redacted the name of this particular PMO because the reader’s question is about how to handle this situation, not about the PMO itself, and because my answer could apply to any number of demonstrably false teachers or organizations. To name this well known organization would require me to provide and explain the voluminous evidence that this PMO does, indeed, vehemently endorse CRT (watch the video series linked above) and is becoming increasingly unbiblical in their position on perversion. I plan to deal with that in another article about this particular PMO at some point, but dealing with it here would make this article much too long and involved.)

I know that’s a difficult spot to be in, and, having been in similar situations myself, I certainly sympathize.

If you’re married, and your husband is a Christian, the first thing you should do (which you probably have done, I just like to begin at the beginning :0) is to thoroughly discuss this with your husband and find out what he wants you to do, and do that.

Hebrews 13:17a says, “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account.” This elder is not doing his Titus 1:9, 3:10-11 duty to keep watch over the souls of his flock. He is harming them and calling some of them (the discerning committee members) liars. And he will have to give an account of all of that to God. You discerning committee members are actually God’s grace to him to protect him from this sin and subsequent judgment, and he apparently doesn’t realize or appreciate that.

He’s got several credible, doctrinally sound committee members coming to him, warning him about a legitimate biblical issue, and he’s basically telling them they’re wrong in favor of letting the serpents come into the church and further deceive him and the other, less discerning, members of the committee.

The point of this is for the members of the committee to be swayed to support him and the PMO because this is what he wants. He wants to support the PMO. If they’re doing the things you and the other concerned committee members say they’re doing (and they are – there’s plenty of reputable evidence out there to prove it, including what you found), does he really think the representatives are going to admit to it when they visit? Of course not. They’re going to speak, softly, gently, and lovingly. They’re going to be personable and witty. They’re going to give all the right biblical answers. They’re going to say whatever they think this elder wants to hear so he’ll side with them and give them the church’s money.

Something Amy and I have discussed several times on the podcast is this dynamic of sensuality (in the classical sense of the word: “appealing to the senses” of sight, hearing, etc.). It’s exactly what Satan did in the Garden to convince Eve to eat the fruit (see the section on Genesis 3, here). He smooth talked her and appealed to her senses – her feelings – which she followed over her reason: that which she already knew with her brain that God had commanded. (Sensuality is why, for example, it’s easier to be objective about whether or not the lyrics of a worship song are biblical when you read the lyrics from a piece of paper rather than listening to the song. The music appeals to your sense of hearing and your emotions, which can override your rational, objective reasoning.)

That’s why – whether he realizes it or not – your elder is bringing these people in to meet with you in person. It’s a lot easier to appeal to people’s senses and feelings face to face and with your sincere tone of voice and sparkling personality than it is to sway them with facts on a piece of paper.

I really hate to say these things about your elder, but either he’s being underhanded, or he’s well intentioned, yet incredibly gullible and undiscerning. (In fact, he may be allowing his feelings of sentimentality for this PMO to sway him even though he can clearly see the evidence that their beliefs and practices contradict Scripture.)

Either way, assuming this is his general state instead of this being a one time slip up, both of these things are disqualifying (see the qualifications for elders in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9). One of the requirements for elders in the Titus 1 passage is in verse 9:

He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

He’s not “rebuking those who contradict” sound doctrine (the PMO), he’s being a corrupt gatekeeper and welcoming the wolves into his sheepfold. If he doesn’t repent, especially if this is a pattern for him, he has disqualified himself from eldership.

An additional issue is – what in the world is going on here with your church’s polity? Your committee voted not to fund this PMO and this elder singlehandedly overrules the committee? Why does the committee even exist? Is it just supposed to be a rubber stamp for whatever any particular elder wants? That’s not biblical.

Furthermore, why is he so locked in on this particular PMO? There are dozens of doctrinally sound missions organizations out there that your church could support and that your committee and your elder could probably unanimously agree on. Why does it have to be this PMO? (My guess: He worked for them in the past or has some sort of personal connection to them, ergo, the sentimentality, or there’s somebody he knows who works for this PMO that he wants to support using the church’s finances. This could be a conflict of interest.)

What I would do is to go to the meeting with my phone in hand, voice memo app open, and let it be known that you’re going to be recording the meeting so you can listen to it again later to make sure you haven’t misunderstood or missed anything. Do not try to hide the fact that you’re recording it. That makes you look sneaky and deceptive, plus, you have nothing to hide. You’re not doing anything wrong. This is just an electronic form of taking notes. Additionally, if you’re told, by the elder or the PMO representatives, that you can’t record the meeting, that speaks volumes about their motives.

After the meeting, the discerning members of the committee should go back to the elder and talk to him again. (You might want to really emphasize my point above that if the PMO were guilty of doing these things, they wouldn’t admit it.). If he digs his heels in and your church hierarchy has another elder or head pastor above him in the chain of command, make an appointment with him, take your whole group, and express your concerns to him. Go as far up the chain of command as you can until you get to the top or until somebody listens and deals with this elder.

If the elder is at the top of the chain of command, and supporting false teachers/doctrine is typical of the way he operates, and he doesn’t repent, you need to find out what your church’s protocol is for initiating church discipline with an elder and the discerning male members of the committee, your husband, and/or other appropriate men should initiate it. If there is no protocol and he can’t be removed and doesn’t repent, I’d go ahead and find a new church. But until you do (or if you decide to stay at this church despite this issue), explore your church’s options for designating your offerings so your money doesn’t go to support this PMO.

Readers, if you’re going through any sort of similar situation at your church, you may wish to explore my article The Mailbag: How should I approach my church leaders about a false teacher they’re introducing?

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag

The Mailbag: Immodest Proposal

Michelle Lesley

I’m wondering if you could offer some advice on how to handle a tricky situation with my neighbor. She often runs on the road in front of my house and chooses to wear just a sports bra and skin tight running shorts. It creates a sin opportunity for both my husband and my sons and is really causing a heart issue for me.

I know she’s a believer, or at least attends church regularly. How can I best approach this so it doesn’t turn into a subjective argument about modesty?

Also, we have found a doctrinally sound church but haven’t joined because so many so women are dressed inappropriately. Unfortunately, some of these women are in the elders/deacons families.  Any advice on how to approach this when we meet with the elders? Our hope is that the issue can be corrected and we can continue to be a part of this body.

I know it’s a heart issue for these women and I can certainly pray, but is there Scripture that says church discipline should be taking place allowing us to worship too?

It’s no secret to anyone with eyes that the fairer sex is – more and more, every day – letting it all hang out. I’m just as appalled as any other Christian woman when I look around at the world. And, sadly, sometimes immodesty infiltrates the church as well.

Before you do anything in either of these situations, I would encourage you to listen, listen carefully, and maybe even listen more than once to the three episode A Word Fitly Spoken podcast series Amy and I released a few years ago on modesty:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

You might be wondering why I’m recommending that you – someone who obviously cares about modesty and Scripture’s teaching on it – give the subject more study. It’s a perfectly reasonable question.

It’s because modesty is such a concern for you that I want to make sure you (and all of my readers, really) have a biblical understanding of it. And once you do, I want to lovingly suggest that you spend some weeks praying for wisdom and clarity on the question of whether all of these women are actually dressed immodestly, or if there’s a possibility that your own ideas about modesty might need some biblical tweaking.

I’m not saying that’s definitely the case, because I don’t know you, and I can’t see how all of these women are dressed. I’m saying study up and explore that possibility in private prayer time with the Lord before you decide you need to take action, especially with something as serious as church discipline.

I would also suggest that you and your husband spend some time in prayer about all of this and have some focused discussions around the question of how much of this is his and your sons’ issue and how much of it is your issue. It’s not fair to your husband or sons to assume they are incapacitated by lust over all of these women unless they’ve told you that’s the case. You said, it’s “really causing a heart issue for me,” and I think it might be more of an issue for you that you realize. You may need to explore the questions of:

  • whether or not you trust your husband to be faithful, including whether or not he’s been unfaithful, habitually used pornography, or had a lust problem in the past
  • the balance between protecting your sons from sexual sin and entrusting them to the Lord
  • the degree to which you should be the one dealing with your sons about this issue (As a woman, you don’t have a man’s eyes, brain, or heart. Your husband does. He’s the best one to build your boys into godly men in this area.)
  • whether weight, health, aging, or other factors might be causing you to be jealous of these other women’s appearances
  • if you’ve ever been the victim of sexual abuse, is seeing so many women as immodestly dressed somehow connected to that experience?
  • (I know this is extremely unlikely, but it could apply to another reader): whether you’ve had sin issues of homosexuality or homosexual lust in the past and that might be playing a part in this.
  • whether you’re struggling with trusting the Lord with any aspects of this situation

If your husband is struggling against the sin of lust and/or pornography, my recommendation to him is to contact either a doctrinally sound pastor or godly older man he knows and trusts to disciple him about this, or he needs to set up an appointment with a certified biblical counselor (not the same thing as a “Christian counselor/therapist/psychologist/etc.”).

If you and your husband spend sufficient time studying, praying, seeking wisdom, and discussing all of these things and you can stand before God with a clear conscience and honestly say, “It’s truly not us. There really are a lot of immodestly dressed women around us,” then you can discuss what action, if any, to take. The biblical pattern is to always examine our own hearts first before seeking to correct others.

The biblical pattern is to always examine our own hearts first before seeking to correct others. (See Matthew 7:1-5)

In either case, I would not advise approaching your neighbor about her running garb unless you are extremely close friends (and I suspect you’re not since you called her a “neighbor” instead of a friend, and you can’t confidently say whether or not she’s a Believer). It’s not going to go well no matter how kindly you approach her or what you say.

My advice:

  • Most people run at a regular time each day. Figure out when that is. (For heaven’s sake, don’t ask your neighbor. That’s going to come off as creepy and stalker-ish.)
  • If you’re the one who has the issue with seeing her dressed immodestly, either don’t walk through the living room at her running time (or don’t look out the window if you do), or don’t open the curtains until after that time, or both. However big your property might be, it can’t possibly take more than a few minutes for her to pass your field of vision.
  • Let your husband and sons handle their business of making a covenant with their eyes. That’s their job, not yours. And they’re already having to do it every day in scads of other situations you’re not aware of, so they’ve got some practice at it.

With regard to the situation at the church, either the issue is with you and there aren’t multiple women dressed so immodestly every week that you can’t worship, or there are and this church is not doctrinally sound. Because those two things – ongoing extremely immodest dress by the elders’/deacons family members and a doctrinally sound church – cannot coexist. They cancel each other out.

In addition to it being the biblical pattern, the reason I emphasized examining your own heart first is that I’ve been a member of and visited dozens of churches in my life. I’ve visited a few that would give Bethel a run for its money. And I’ve never, even in the worst of those churches, observed so many women so scantily clad every single week that it would have been impossible for doctrinally sound Christians to worship (had it been a doctrinally sound church). An isolated modesty issue here and there – usually with a visitor? Sure, even in the doctrinally sound churches. But never the type of pervasive, continuous issue you’re describing – something that would prevent potential members from joining the church.

If there truly are multiple elders’/deacons’ family members who are immodestly dressed every week and it’s not being dealt with, it’s not a doctrinally sound church and you shouldn’t join it. Use my Searching for a new church? resource in the blue menu at the top of this page and find another church.

“…is there Scripture that says church discipline should be taking place allowing us to worship too?”

I understand the what you’re trying to convey here – basically the idea that the people who are doing wrong (dressing immodestly) are the ones who should have to change their ways, not the people who are not doing wrong (you and your family). I sympathize and there are many ways in which I agree with you on this.

But you can’t throw that idea into the blender with church discipline or you’ll be guilty of mishandling the Scriptures that deal with church discipline, primarily Matthew 18:15-20.

Now if your brother sins, go and show him his fault, between you and him alone; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as the Gentile and the tax collector.

Matthew 18:15-17

Church discipline has nothing to do with making things right or comfortable or fair *for you*. Church discipline is about rescuing brothers and sisters from sin and reconciling them to Christ and to the church *because we love them*.

Church discipline has nothing to do with making things right or comfortable or fair for you. Church discipline is about rescuing brothers and sisters from sin and reconciling them to Christ and to the church because we love them.

Brothers, even if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, each of you looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Galatians 6:1

And if anyone does not obey our word in this letter, take special note of that person to not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. And yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

My brothers, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

Modesty can be a tricky issue to deal with. Just deal with your own heart first, and then move on to helping and discipling other women in this area.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Bible Study, Mailbag

The Mailbag: Can you recommend a good Bible study for women/teens/kids?

Michelle Lesley

Originally published May 15, 2017

Can you recommend a good women’s Bible study? 

Can you recommend a Bible study we can do with our teens/children?

Next to being asked whether or not a particular teacher is doctrinally sound, this question, or some variation of it, is the one I’m most often asked. And, to be honest, it’s a question I have a love-hate relationship with.

I love (LOVELOVELOVELOVE) that women ask me this question because it means two things: they want to study, or teach their children, the Bible and they want to be sure what they’re learning or teaching is doctrinally sound and in line with Scripture. That’s the central reason my ministry even exists- I want Christian women to be grounded in the Bible and sound doctrine, and it brings me unbelievable joy and encouragement when I see women seek that out.

The hate part has nothing to do with the people asking the question, but with the prevailing line of thought in evangelicalism that has led them to ask the question. Namely, that the people in the pew aren’t capable of studying and understanding the Bible for themselves- they need some Christian celebrity to tell them what it means.

This is scarily reminiscent of the pre-Protestant Reformation ideology that ruled Roman Catholic “Christianity.” The pope and the priests, not the Scriptures themselves, told Christians what to believe. Catholic rulers prohibited the people from having copies of the Bible in their own language and martyred many Bible translators and Reformers. Only the elite, those in leadership, were supposedly able to comprehend the Scriptures and dispense doctrine to the common Christian.

Twentieth and twenty-first century evangelicalism hasn’t taken that direct and violent route, but rather, has gradually brainwashed – whether intentionally or unintentionally – Christians into thinking that if they’re going to study or teach the Bible, they have to have a curriculum, book, or DVD study in order to do so. Teach straight from the Bible with no leader’s guide or student books? It’s practically unheard of in the average church, and hardly anyone is equipped to do so. Why? Because for the past several decades, that’s how Bible study has been presented to church members. You walk into Sunday School and you’re handed a quarterly. Somebody wants to teach a women’s Bible study? She’s sent to peruse the shelves of LifeWay for a popular author, not to her prayer closet and her Bible. Using teaching materials written by somebody else is just assumed.

Well in my opinion, it’s time for another reformation. A Bible study reformation. And, so, with hammer in hand, I have one resolution I want to nail to the door of Church As Usual:

I will no longer help perpetuate the stranglehold the pre-packaged Bible study industry has on Christians. If you are a 21st century believer with access to a Bible in your native language and doctrinally sound preaching and teaching I will not recommend a Bible study book or program to you. You need to pick up the actual Bible and begin studying the God-breathed text for yourself, and teach it to your children. 

“…my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen.”1

Ladies, I know you may feel inadequate, but don’t give in to those feelings. Try. Pick a book of the Bible, start at the beginning, and read it through to the end, taking as much time as you need. You might just be pleasantly surprised at how well you grasp it. That’s because, if you’re a believer, the Holy Spirit resides within you and will help you to understand the Word He authored.

Read directly from the Bible to your children. Ask them simple questions about the passage: How was this Bible character obedient or disobedient to God? What can we learn about what God is like from this chapter? What does this passage teach us about prayer, forgiveness, loving each other, kindness, etc.? Explain any big words they might not understand, or look them up together.

Afraid you might get something wrong? Confused by a particular verse? That may happen from time to time, and that’s OK. Bible study is a skill just like everything else. Nobody ever tried a new task and was perfect at it the very first time. But God has not only given you the Holy Spirit who will never lead you into doctrinal error, He has given you a pastor, elders, teachers, and brothers and sisters in the Lord to help disciple you. Ask questions, trust God to illumine your understanding, and keep right on practicing.

There are also a myriad of reference materials that can hone your skills and help as you study your Bible (see the “Additional Resources” section below). And there are some fantastic, easy to read books on theology by trustworthy authors that can give you greater clarity on various points of doctrine. By all means, read as many as you can get your hands on.

But when it’s time for Bible study, study your Bible. When it’s time to teach your children, teach them the Bible. You can do this, ladies. Women with less education and fewer resources than you have access to have done it for centuries and have flourished in their walk with the Lord.

Trust God. Study hard. You can do this.

Additional Resources:

The Mailbag: We Want Bible Study Answers

Bible Study resource articles

Bible Studies by Michelle Lesley

10 Simple Steps to Plain Vanilla Bible Study

You’re Not as Dumb as You Think You Are: Five Reasons to Put Down that Devotional and Pick Up the Actual Bible

10 Bookmarkable Biblical Resources for Christian Women

Rightly Dividing: 12 Do’s and Don’ts for Effective Bible Study

¹Just a little tribute to Martin Luther at the Diet of Worms

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.