Tag: submission in marriage

Mailbag, Worship

The Mailbag: Potpourri (Boundaries… Submit vs. address sin?… Discernment- Who do you think you are?)

Michelle Lesley

Welcome to another “potpourri” edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question.

I like to take the opportunity in these potpourri editions to let new readers know about my comments/e-mail/messages policy. I’m not able to respond individually to most e-mails and messages, so here are some helpful hints for getting your questions answered more quickly. Remember, the search bar (at the very bottom of each page) can be a helpful tool!

Or maybe I answered your question already? Check out my article The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs to see if your question has been answered and to get some helpful resources.

This comment was left on my article, Taking Offense:

Thank you for this biblical truth: “Jesus taught us to…love our enemies, do good to those who hate us, bless those who curse us, pray for people who abuse us, turn the other cheek, give to those who want to take from us, treat others the way we want to be treated”. Are boundaries biblical then? Do we stick around when someone is pouring out non-stop criticism and verbally abusing us or talking behind our back? Family members can be the worst. People who are not following Jesus and who are consumed with darkness, hate people who are walking in the Light. I understand not taking offense, but in my experience, when I turn the other cheek to abusers, they keep abusing and hate you more. It is not good to allow them to sin against us because when their sin flows freely, it not only harms me but it harms them too. Thoughts?

Great question! It’s one Amy Spreeman and I have received numerous times over the past few years, so we’ve recorded a podcast mini-series on it!

Beautiful Biblical Boundaries- part 1 deals with the Scriptures and biblical precepts addressing boundaries. We discuss how and when to erect boundaries (and how and when not to). This episode is currently scheduled to drop next Wednesday, November 12.

In Beautiful Biblical Boundaries- part 2, we’ll answer listeners’ questions about boundaries in their own lives and relationships. This episode is currently scheduled to drop in about two weeks, on Wednesday, November 19.

Please note that the links above will not work until the dates specified.

This comment was left on my article, Marriage: It’s My Pity Party and I’ll Cry if I Want To ~ 7 Ways to Take Your Focus Off Yourself and Put it Back on Christ (By the way, yes, I realize that the length of the titles of some of my articles rivals those of many of the Puritans’ books and pamphlets. I’m OK with that.😀)

I have a question about number 7…

This article pertains to normal, relatively healthy, Christian marriages. In other words, not abusive marriages. If you are being abused, get yourself and your children to a safe place, and call the police, your pastor, or a loved one for help.

Of course, I agree that we should be subject to our husbands. However, are we not to call them out gently on their sin when they are acting like “an ungodly jerk” according to various verses such as Proverbs 27:5, Luke 17:3, Matthew 18:15, and Galatians 6:1? I guess I’m just confused because both commands seem to contradict each other.

This is another super question! The short answer is, “Yes,” but as Ecclesiastes 3:1,7 tells us, “there is a time for every matter under heaven…a time to be silent and a time to speak,” and in the moment when your husband is acting like “an ungodly jerk,” he’s apt to respond poorly to his sin being exposed and corrected, which just compounds his sin. (And frankly, we wives usually respond just as poorly in that moment when the shoe is on the other foot.)

In that moment, generally speaking, it’s usually a time to be silent, and, assuming he’s not asking you to sin, do whatever it is he’s gruffly or impatiently asking you to do with a gracious, kind, willing, and loving attitude and demeanor, as opposed to pouting and feeling sorry for yourself – which is the theme of the article (and also why #7 focuses on the “a time to keep silent” aspect of submission rather than the “a time to speak” aspect of addressing your husband’s sin).

Have you ever heard the phrase “killing someone with kindness”? God has an amazing way of taking our example of godly obedience, kindness, and refusing to retaliate, and using that to convict the other person of his sin. He does that Himself with us:

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

Romans 2:4

So, yes, there’s a time to speak and – approaching your husband the way you would want to be approached – kindly and humbly address his sin. That time is usually… later. Not in the moment.

What makes you confident in your ability to determine who is a true or false teacher of the Bible? Are you a theologian or do you have background in studying theology and the Bible? Just curious.

(I’ve distilled this question down from a much longer laundry list of complaints from a follower about a Facebook post in which I warned against false teacher Priscilla Shirer. It’s hard to tell from the wording in the brief excerpt above, but this was not a genuine, good faith question from someone desiring to grow in her discernment skills. It was tossed out in a snarky, accusatory, “Who do you think you are?” tone. My tone below, per Proverbs 26:5, is a biblically appropriate response to hers.)

The Bible makes me confident in my ability to determine who is a true or false teacher of the Bible. And if you’re a genuinely regenerated Christian, it should make you confident too.

Our authority as Christians comes from God’s Word, not from a seminary. You don’t have to go to seminary to be a discerning Christian (in fact, many seminaries are so rife with false doctrine that you’d better be discerning before you get there). If you think about it, none of the people who wrote the Bible’s teachings on false teachers and false prophets ever went to seminary, including the Bereans, whom God praised for their discernment.

Scripture tells us:

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1 John 4:1


Examining teachers and comparing their teaching and behavior with Scripture is a command from God for Christians, not an option, and certainly not something for Christians to criticize and scorn other Christians for doing (as long as they’re doing it biblically, which I am).

So the question here is not why am I obeying God’s Word, testing this spirit against Scripture, and when she’s found to be a false teacher, warning other Christians about her. The question is, if you’re a Christian, why aren’t you? Why aren’t you studying your Bible so that you understand it, and can see how Shirer’s words and actions conflict with it? Why aren’t you warning others against her? I would be very concerned about that for my own spiritual life if I were you.

I hope this resource will answer any other objections to the Bible’s command for discernment that you may have.

I later added these remarks (slightly edited here) to the remainder of the commenters on that post:

I would encourage you younger ladies (especially those who have been commenting in the “Where do you get off?!?!” vein to me) to consider this:

“When one becomes so familiar with His Word you can spot a false teacher a mile away – I told my girls that when you walk close to God and His WORD you become sensitive to the clanging gong of false teachers.”

This quote is from a 70+ year old “Titus 2:3-5 woman” who has been walking with the Lord and a passionate student of God’s Word for over 50 years. And she’s right. And as a younger woman (I’m 56), I’m very thankful for the wisdom she just spoke into my life.

As I said, I’m 56. I have been a faithful member of decent churches since 9 months before I was born. I’ve been saved since I was 12. That means I’ve been walking with the Lord and studying His Word at church, a Christian high school and college, in other Christian organizations, and on my own for 44 years. Longer than many of you have been alive. Furthermore, I’ve been blogging and “doing discernment ministry” for over 17 years.

If you had a doctor with 44 years of training and 17 years of diagnostic experience and he gave you a diagnosis you didn’t like, would you immediately throw it back in his face with a sassy, disrespectful, “What qualifies YOU to say so?” or “What makes you so sure you’re right? MY opinion is…”. I doubt it. You might respectfully ask him some questions or request some resources to help you understand. You might even politely seek a second or third opinion, but you would not be so brash and arrogant to immediately assume he has no idea what he’s talking about and is just being mean to you, and you know better than he does.

I’m not saying this to toot my own horn or “look down on anyone’s youth” (that would be out of context, anyway), and I’m certainly not saying I’m without sin or never make mistakes. I’m saying there’s a reason Titus 2:3-5 specifies that older women are to train younger women. (Which implies that younger women should listen to older women instead of immediately dismissing us out of hand when we say something you don’t like – especially when it’s backed up with rightly handled Scripture and other mature, doctrinally sound Christians corroborate it.) Younger women do not have the same spiritual maturity, life experience, wisdom, and biblical training that older women have who have been walking with the Lord for decades. (I definitely didn’t have it when I was a younger woman!)

By all means, get a second opinion from rightly handled, in context Scripture. Politely ask questions. Do the research on your own. But stop being so reactionary and lashing out every time you hear something biblical that you don’t like. All you’re doing is showcasing your spiritual immaturity and ignorance of Scripture and your lack of self control. Or, worst case scenario, you’re bearing the fruit of someone who isn’t saved.

I’m far from perfect, but I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck and start slinging the label of “false teacher” around willy nilly. By God’s incredible grace, mercy, wisdom, and sanctification, I’ve been doing this a long time, and I know what I’m talking about – all glory to Him.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag, Worship

The Mailbag: Potpourri (Judas in Hell?… Dementia & submission… Supporting Israel… Replace the sermon with ___?)

Michelle Lesley

Welcome to another “potpourri” edition of The Mailbag, where I give short(er) answers to several questions rather than a long answer to one question.

I like to take the opportunity in these potpourri editions to let new readers know about my comments/e-mail/messages policy. I’m not able to respond individually to most e-mails and messages, so here are some helpful hints for getting your questions answered more quickly. Remember, the search bar (at the very bottom of each page) can be a helpful tool!

Or maybe I answered your question already? Check out my article The Mailbag: Top 10 FAQs to see if your question has been answered and to get some helpful resources.

Did Judas go to Hell when he died?

Although there is no Bible verse that says verbatim, “Judas died and went to Hell,” and we always have to be very careful with speculating, I believe we can safely infer from two passages (and their surrounding contexts) that Judas is, indeed in Hell.

The first passage is Matthew 26:20-25. This is the scene at the Last Supper when Jesus has just told the disciples that one of them (Judas) will betray Him. He says about His betrayer in verse 24, “woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” “Woe,” and “better if he had not been born,” are not phraseology anyone, let alone omniscient Jesus, would use to describe someone who would be entering Heaven mere hours later.

The second passage is John 17, Jesus’ high priestly prayer for His disciples just prior to His crucifixion. In verse 12, Jesus says, “not one of them perished but the son of perdition,” referring to Judas. Again, Jesus knows Judas’ death is only hours away. He also knows whether Judas will be in Heaven or Hell afterward. If Jesus knew Judas would be in Heaven, why would He call him “the son of perdition”? Furthermore, the Greek word translated “perdition” or in other Bible translations, “destruction,” is apoleia. This word can carry the connotation, “damnable,” and “the destruction which consists of eternal misery in Hell” (Strongs, G684).

So, yes, Scripture indicates that Judas is spending eternity in hell.

Additional Resources:

Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved? at Got Questions?

Did Judas repent? by John MacArthur

This question was submitted in response to my article The Mailbag: What Is Submission?

My cousin’s (a professing Christian) husband has Alzheimer’s, and his mental state has gone downhill very quickly (she is 59 and he is 77.) At one point in the conversation, she mentioned all the responsibilities she’s taken on that he used to handle, and said that she was now the head of the household. I’m wondering if any Biblical texts address a wife’s role in that situation.

My heart goes out to your cousin. Alzheimer’s Disease and other forms of dementia are such cruel conditions, both for the patient and his or her loved ones.

There is nothing in the Bible that specifically addresses caring for a spouse with dementia or any other mental incapacitation, or what a wife’s submission to her husband might look like in that situation.

I think what your cousin probably meant by her remark about being “head of the household” is that she now has to take over all of the family “business” responsibilities her husband used to handle: paying the bills, getting things around the house fixed, handling legal paperwork and taxes, making decisions, and so on. And, sadly, her husband is also not able to lead her in Bible study, prayer, and spiritual matters, so she’s having to handle that as well.

These are all things she would immediately have to take over and handle if her husband suddenly dropped dead of a heart attack, and we wouldn’t think a thing of it.

What’s happening to your cousin’s husband is a slow death. His body isn’t dying all at once, but day by day, bit by bit. So, she’s gradually taking over the things his body has died to and is unable to handle any more. And, biblically, that’s not just OK, that is being a faithful, godly helper.

If she came to me for counsel, I’d advise her to keep doing what she’s doing. If her husband has moments of lucidity in which she can tell he’s making a reasonable decision or request, she should certainly submit to that. If her husband made non-sinful decisions before he became ill, she should continue to submit to and carry out those decisions*. But otherwise, she should continue to love and serve him the best she can, and that includes gradually taking over what he can no longer do.

*(Thank you to “hiltonjp5c174e0fe6” for her comment below on 10/8/25, which reminded me of this.)

Are Christian Americans ALWAYS supposed to back Israel? The people of Israel now may not even be Jesus believing Christians or even God believing Jews. Should we support everything they say and do, just because they live in the country? I’m not implying anything, one way or another, but it seems a lot of Christians say, “we back Israel so we will be blessed” and it sometimes seems like a blind backing.

Much has been written and said in the last hundred years or so about Israel, eschatology, end times prophecy, and so on, but sometimes it gets a little complicated and convoluted. I think there might be a simpler way to look at things.

First, I would have to ask: What does it mean for a Christian individual in 2025, who’s not a politician or a pastor, to “back Israel”? What does that look like in your daily life? Posting supportive things about Israel on social media? Voting for politicians who promise to create legislation and policies that are favorable to Israel? Those are really the only things I can think of. You and I have no power to do anything substantive to “back Israel” in our day to day lives, so this question is mostly moot for the majority of us as individuals.

Second, Christians handle and evaluate situations according to Scripture as they come up. If an issue comes up with Israel, we look at it biblically:

Did Israel’s government make a decision that the Bible clearly says is sin? Christians can’t support that. God certainly has never supported Israel’s sin just because they’re Israel. Just take a gander at how He responded to Israel’s sin in the Old Testament. He sent diseases, natural disasters, the armies of pagan nations to attack them, and finally exiled them for 70 years. In Jeremiah 7, God essentially tells them they can’t go out and commit a bunch of abominations and then expect Him to deliver them.

Did Israel’s government make a decision that doesn’t conflict with God’s commands or biblical principles? Then we evaluate the wisdom of it according to Scripture, and we have the freedom in Christ to support or not support that decision (whatever that might mean) accordingly.

I’m curious if replacing the preaching of God’s Word on the Lord’s Day during the morning worship service with a gospel music concert or a VBS commencement is biblically appropriate and/or considered to be our worship of Him? I am seeing a doctrinal shift toward the progressive left in some areas of my local church, and I’m burdened and heartbroken as I pray for God to make clear what I perceive as concerns and how I can glorify Him in this matter.

I’m so sorry. I know firsthand what it’s like to be in a good church that goes bad. It is heartbreaking and stressful.

Scripture doesn’t give us a line by line order of service to follow for the worship service, but that doesn’t mean anything goes, either. Typically, churches follow either the regulative principle of worship (RPW) or the normative principle of worship (NPW). The NPW is the idea that we can do anything in the worship service that isn’t prohibited in Scripture. The RPW basically says that we are only to do things in the worship service that are prescribed in Scripture: preaching the Word, worshiping God through song, praying, giving offerings, and so on.

Now, you’ll notice that God commands both the preaching of the Word and singing in His church, but He doesn’t specify how much time we’re to devote to each. However, when we look at the overall picture of the church that the New Testament presents, it’s easy to see that the preaching and teaching of the Word should be central as a general rule.

That being said, it is my opinion that it’s perfectly OK for a doctrinally sound church to occasionally (maybe a couple of times a year) have a service in which the music portion of the worship service is longer than the preaching portion, as long as the Word is being proclaimed through the music.

For example, my church usually holds a worship service a couple of weeks before Christmas called “Lessons and Carols”. Scriptures pertaining to Christ’s incarnation are alternated with Christmas carols and hymns that echo those Scriptures. That takes up most of the service. At the end, my pastor gives a briefer than normal gospel presentation / sermon.

I think something like that or a Christmas or Easter cantata is fine.

I would not agree that it would be appropriate to replace the sermon with a “gospel music concert” (if, by that, you mean a singer/group comes in and gives a performance) or a VBS commencement, to the exclusion of the sermon. Neither a concert-style performance nor a commencement program are elements of worship prescribed in Scripture. And if you’re seeing other doctrinal problems alongside these things, it’s probably indicative of the overall declining spiritual health of your church. Time to make an appointment with the pastor, and kindly and lovingly express your concerns.

I pray your pastor will listen, and I hope you won’t need this, but just in case you do, you can always find the Searching for a new church? tab in the blue menu bar at the top of this page.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag, Marriage

The Mailbag: I “feel led” in a different direction from my husband.

Michelle Lesley

Originally published March 20, 2017

My husband and I recently moved to a new state. After living here a few months, I ‘m not sure this is where God wants us. At the time of our move, my husband had another opportunity for us to go to a different state than the one we just moved to. In prayer and reading God’s word I think we should’ve gone to that state instead. That opportunity is still open, and I feel led to go. I’ve prayed and asked God and still feel led. I’m so confused. I am starting to feel like my husband is a hindrance in my following God’s will. He is supposed to be the leader of the family but he’s not a godly leader. I am a Christian woman who is trying to follow what I think God is leading me to do.  My problem is I have a husband who isn’t in God’s word, nor trying to be, and he says no. 

One of the most stressful situations in a marriage is when your spouse is an unbeliever, one spouse is much more spiritually mature than the other, or there are major differences on theological issues between spouses. I know this is difficult, but I hope I’ll be able to point you in a helpful direction.

It’s good that you’re reading your Bible and praying as you seek God’s direction. You say that in “reading God’s Word I think we should’ve gone to that state instead.” I’m not sure (but am very curious) as to which Bible passage you might have read that leads you to believe you moved to the wrong state. I can’t think of one that addresses that issue because the Bible is not personally specific in that way. It gives us wisdom and godly instruction and principles which God wants us to use to make wise choices, but there aren’t any verses that say things like, “You should have moved to the other state,” “Marry Bob, not Fred,” or “Buy the minivan instead of the convertible.”

You say, “I am a Christian woman who is trying to follow what I think God is leading me to do.” That’s great! That’s always the attitude of heart we should have. And the first thing we need to understand is that God leads us through His sufficient and authoritative Word. That means, when we have a decision to make, we don’t go by subjective feelings and impressions, we go to God’s written Word and make sure we’re obeying everything it says about our situation.

The good news about your situation is that God spells out His will for you very clearly in Scripture. If you really mean what you say about wanting to do God’s will and follow what He’s leading you to do rather than doing what you want to do and calling that God’s will, here it is:

If you really mean what you say about wanting to do *God’s* will and follow what *He’s* leading you to do rather than doing what you want to do and calling *that* God’s will, here it is:

God is leading you to submit to your husband:

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Ephesians 5:22-24 (emphasis mine)

Unless your husband is abusing* you or encouraging you to do something sinful, God’s will is for you to graciously submit to his decisions. Denying your request to move to another state may not make you happy, but it does not qualify as abuse or sin.

*Physical abuse. A husband’s decision not to bow to his wife’s wishes in a situation like this does not constitute abuse. Any wife who is being physically abused should get to safety and get help.

Notice, this passage says wives are to submit “in everything,” not just the decisions we agree with. (If you agree, that’s not submission. You’re both getting what you want. Ideally, that’s what will happen most of the time.)

As our husbands’ helpers, we should certainly discuss issues and decisions with them and lovingly offer wise, biblical input, but our husbands are responsible to God for leading us, so they make the final decision, and we submit to it with a godly attitude. The remainder of this passage goes on to instruct men about how they’re to treat their wives in a godly way, but it does not say that wives only have to submit to their husbands if their husbands are godly or “in the Word.”

God is leading you to conduct yourself respectfully:

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, 1 Peter 3:1-5 (emphasis mine)

Sometimes when we ladies want something from our husbands, we can be like a dog with a bone, talking them to death about it (Dare I say, nagging?). While husbands and wives should talk through major issues and decisions together, if you’ve calmly, lovingly, and respectfully offered your husband your input and he has made his decision, you need to stop trying to convince him to do it your way. Let it go, Elsa. Behave and speak with love, grace, and kindness toward your husband as you move on with life in your marriage. You may not win him over to your opinion, but that’s not your ultimate goal. Your goal – as you mentioned in your e-mail – is for him to be godly and in the Word. Your behavior and demeanor can help win him to godliness.

Sometimes when we ladies want something from our husbands, we can be like a dog with a bone…Let it go, Elsa. Behave and speak with love, grace, and kindness toward your husband as you move on with life in your marriage.

God is leading you to be content:

I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me. Philippians 4:11b-13

If anyone knew what it was like to bear up under unpleasant circumstances and find his contentment in Christ rather than in temporal happiness, it was Paul. Paul had learned the secret to maintaining his contentment no matter what: the strength only Christ can provide. Christ can enable you to be content in this circumstance of your life, too. Just keep your focus on Him and ask Him to strengthen you.

God is leading you to pray for His will to be done and to trust Him for the outcome.

And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” Matthew 26:39 (emphasis mine)

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. Proverbs 3:5-6 (emphasis mine)

In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus taught us to pray, “Thy will be done.” At Gethsemane, He demonstrated it for us. God did not change Jesus’ circumstances, because it was His will for Jesus to be crucified. But Jesus trusted God to do what was right and best, and He obeyed and glorified His Father to His last breath.

In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus taught us to pray, “Thy will be done.” At Gethsemane, He demonstrated it for us.

Are you praying for God’s will to be done in your situation, or your will? Keep in mind that God is sovereign. If it were His will for you to be in another state right now, that’s where you would be. Nobody can thwart God’s will. Have you ever considered the possibility that it’s not that your husband is a “hindrance in following God’s will” but that it was God’s will for you to be living in this state and that He caused or allowed your husband to move you there because that’s what He wants? Ask God to do His will in your situation, obey Him no matter the cost, and trust Him for the outcome.

Are you praying for God’s will to be done in your situation, or your will?

Finally, I’d like to address something you mentioned in your e-mail that you didn’t seem to think was connected to your main question. Actually, it is. You said that you found my blog while searching for one of the false teachers I warn against. If you’ve been sitting under the teaching of the woman you mentioned, or these teachers, or any other teachers who don’t properly handle and teach God’s Word, that is a large part of your confusion about your situation. These teachers do not correctly teach people how to study, understand, and apply God’s Word to their lives.

You’ve been taught to “feel led” to do things that are in conflict with God’s Word. God leads us and speaks to us through Scripture.

You’ve been taught to “feel led” to do things that are in conflict with God’s Word. God leads us and speaks to us through Scripture, and it is Scripture alone that we are to go to and depend on to live a godly life and make wise decisions, not our feelings, opinions, and experiences. Unfortunately, teachers like the one you mentioned often lead their hearers to attempt to interpret subjective feelings, ideas, impressions, and circumstances as “God’s will” rather than seeking what God has already revealed to be His will in His written Word. I would encourage you to put away the pre-packaged “Bible” studies, simply pick up your Bible, study it, and obey it.

It is Scripture alone that we are to go to and depend on to live a godly life and make wise decisions, not our feelings, opinions, and experiences.

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Mailbag, Marriage

The Mailbag: What is submission?

Michelle Lesley

How is biblical submission defined, with specifics?

It’s a great question that a lot of women wonder about. “Just give me a list of all of the things I need to do to be ‘doing submission,’ and I’ll do them!” Unfortunately, that’s not how this, and so many other biblical concepts, works.

“Just give me a list of all of the things I need to do to be ‘doing submission,’ and I’ll do them!” Unfortunately, that’s not how this, and so many other biblical concepts, works.

Asking “How is biblical submission defined, ‘with specifics’?” is kind of like asking someone to define “modesty” or “parenting” with specifics. A lot of those “specifics” are situation dependent and vary from family to family or person to person.

For example, you can’t make a law for Christians that a woman’s skirt must be a certain length, because the length of women’s legs vary, and the same length requirement will be modest on one woman and immodest on another. It’s the same idea with submission. It’s going to vary from marriage to marriage.

In a godly marriage1, a husband and wife come together and discuss how they’re going to handle various issues, chores, responsibilities, etc. If there’s agreement, great! But that’s not really submission because both spouses are getting what they want.

If there’s agreement, great! But that’s not really submission because both spouses are getting what they want.

When there’s an area of disagreement, both spouses offer their input. If, after discussing it, the husband comes to the conclusion that he was wrong or that it would work just as well to do things the wife’s way, then he leads the family to do things the way she has suggested.

But if, after hearing his wife out, he concludes that his way is the wisest way to do things, that’s where submission comes in. The husband is responsible before God for how he’s leading in this situation. The wife is responsible before God for maintaining a posture of heart that says, “I may think he’s wrong, but I’m going to trust God in this situation, and obey Him by putting my will aside and graciously doing things my husband’s way.” That is biblical submission whatever the specific circumstances may be.

I may think he’s wrong, but I’m going to trust *God* in this situation, and obey *Him* by putting my will aside and graciously doing things my husband’s way.

Obviously, that’s an ideal situation between a godly husband and a godly wife, but the same applies to a godly wife with an unsaved or not so godly husband. First Peter 3:1-6 and 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 are crystal clear that a wife’s godly submission can be instrumental in his salvation or sanctification.

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct.

For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

2 Peter 3:1-2, 1 Corinthians 7:16

“But what if his way turns out to be the wrong way?” Sometimes you’re going to submit to your husband and he’s going to end up being wrong. He’s going to have to answer to God for that. You’re going to have to answer to God for whether or not you obeyed Him and submitted to your husband.

We don’t obey God only when we think that doing so will yield the results we want. We obey God’s commands every time, we leave the results up to Him, and we trust Him to carry us through and provide for us regardless of what happens. That’s called faith.

We don’t obey God *only* when we think that doing so will yield the results we want.

1If your knee jerk reaction to the word “submission” is to immediately reject this biblical command outright because there are men who abuse their wives (whether or not your husband is one of them), your attitude is not in line with Scripture. Abuse is a separate situation with a separate, biblical way of handling it that has nothing to do with biblical submission. Please note that this article is to be understood in the context of a godly (by definition, not abusive) marriage.

Additional Resources:

Why is submission so scary? at A Word Fitly Spoken

Toxic (Evangelical) Femininity

Imperishable Beauty Bible Study, Lesson 11- A Beautiful Wife

Godly Womanhood – Submission part 1  part 2

CBMW (type “submission” into the search bar)

If you have a question about: a Bible passage, an aspect of theology, a current issue in Christianity, or how to biblically handle a family, life, or church situation, comment below (I’ll hold all questions in queue {unpublished} for a future edition of The Mailbag) or send me an e-mail or private message. If your question is chosen for publication, your anonymity will be protected.

Christian women, Church, Complementarianism

Throwback Thursday ~ Unforbidden Fruits: 3 Ways Women MUST Lead and Teach the Church

Michelle Lesley

Originally published April 20, 2018

Ladies, we whine too much.

Like petulant little girls, we look at what’s off limits to us, stomp our Mary Janes on the floor and cry “Why can’t I? I want to!” instead of giddily jumping into all the opportunities God has blessed us with. Instead of being happy and thankful for what we have, our greedy little fingers stretch out to grasp what God has said we can’t have because it’s not good for us or anybody else.

God has instructed pastors – who are, in turn, to instruct us – that, in the gathered body of Believers, women are not to preach to men, instruct men in the Scriptures, or exercise authority over men. And that’s what we focus on, and whine and kick our feet about. That part – the childish rebellion and discontent with the role God has graciously placed us in – that’s on us.

But pastors, we badly need your help on this one. Many pastors do a wonderful job of rightly and biblically explaining what women are not to do (And may I take a moment to say, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. I know how difficult that can be and that you take a lot of undeserved flak for simply teaching God’s Word on this subject.), but that “no” teaching has often not been coupled with the “yes” teaching of what women must do and how they must lead in order for women, and the church, to be healthy and function properly.

The “no” teaching of what the Bible forbids has often not been coupled with the “yes” teaching of what women *must* do and how they must lead in order for women, and the church, to be healthy and function properly.

You’ve loved us well to tell us not to bite at the apple from the forbidden tree, but we also desperately need you to take us on a tour of the Garden and introduce us to the all-you-can-eat buffet of pear and peach and cherry and pecan trees that we have the privilege and the responsibility to feast on.

🍊 The Other Institution 🍊

Did you ever notice that the “do” for women in the church comes before the “don’t”? We tend to totally skip over that enormous little word that kicks off 1 Timothy 2:11: “Let a woman learn…”. We have no idea of, nor appreciation for, how huge and groundbreaking it was for the Holy Spirit, through Paul, to proactively instruct pastors: “Hey, get these women in here, make sure they listen up, and train them properly in the Scriptures so they’ll be equipped to fortify their homes with biblical truth.”

We completely miss the fact that, though God installs men as the teachers and leaders in one of His foundational institutions – the church – He has very much made women the functional, boots on the ground, day to day, teachers and leaders by example – of His other foundational institution – the family. The church didn’t even exist for the first few millennia of human history, but the family has existed since Creation. And people who are members of families populate and lead the church. Raising and molding those people is a tremendous position and responsibility. A position and responsibility God has largely given to women.

Wives pray for our husbands’ growth in Christ. We build them up with Scripture. With a gentle and quiet spirit, we set a godly example for them as they observe our respectful and pure conduct. We encourage and help them in their leadership roles at church.

Moms pray for our children’s salvation. We pour the gospel into them at every turn. We train up our children in the way that they should go – in the nurture and admonition of the Lord – so that when they are old they do not depart from it. We teach them to love and serve and invest in the church both directly and by modeling these things for them.

And our single, widowed, and childless sisters work right alongside us in this labor, praying for church leaders and members, nurturing children at church whose parents are unsaved or unequipped to raise them biblically, encouraging and assisting brothers and sisters in Christ.

We grow and develop, nourish and support, exhort and sharpen the population of the body of Christ.

Men may lead the church, but women raise the church.

Men may lead the church, but women *raise* the church.

🍐 Woman to Woman 🍐

Essential to the health of any church is the component of women training women, whether in the formal setting of a Bible study class and structured women’s ministry programs or an impromptu “let’s get together for coffee this week” discipleship discussion.

Though we receive instruction in Scripture from our pastors, elders, and teachers, there are some counseling and teaching situations it’s not appropriate for a man to address with a woman, or that a woman understands better than a man. There are issues women face that men just don’t “get” in the same way a sister in Christ does. There are insights and perspectives a woman can use to explain Scripture to another woman that a man just doesn’t have. There are times when a woman needs someone to walk through a long term emotional journey with her that requires a personal intimacy which would be inappropriate for a man to engage in with her. And in the same way men are better equipped than women to train men to be godly husbands, fathers, and church members, women are better equipped than men to train women to be godly wives, mothers, and church members.

God knew all of this back when He breathed out the words of Titus 2:3-5…

Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

…and, again, 1 Timothy 2:11:

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.

Women must be trained properly in the Scriptures so we can take that training and pour it into other women, teaching and sharpening them into godly women, wives, mothers, and church members.

🍑 Super Models 🍑

Women instruct our brothers and sisters in the church in biblical truth when we lead by example. When we sin against someone, we go to that person and ask forgiveness. We demonstrate the importance of meeting together with the Body by being faithful in our church and Sunday School attendance. We model servanthood by serving the church and our brothers and sisters. We paint a picture of biblical compassion by ministering to the sick and others in need. We show Christians how to carry out the Great Commission by sharing the gospel. We set an example of trusting God when others see us depending on Him through difficult situations.

And one of the most important biblical concepts women have the privilege and responsibility of teaching the church through our example is submission to authority – a lesson the church is sorely in need of these days.

Because God blessed us by creating us as women, we have an opportunity to model submission to authority in a unique way that God has chosen to deny to men.

Because God blessed us by creating us as women, we have an opportunity to model submission to authority in a unique way that God has chosen to deny to men.

As we submit to our husbands, we teach the church what it means to submit to Christ. How to walk in humility and obey Him out of love. How to put selfishness aside. To trust Him to take care of us. To deny ourselves, take up our cross daily, and follow Him.

When we submit to God’s design for leadership in the church and joyfully carry out the work He has planned for us as godly women, we teach the church to submit to God’s authority and love Him by obeying His commands. We instruct our fellow church members in respecting and submitting to the pastors and elders God has placed in spiritual authority over us.

Submission to Christ, to God’s commands, and to pastors and elders is the bedrock of a healthy church. God has graciously given women the role – and the duty – of teaching these and other biblical principles to our churches in a way that men cannot -through our example as godly women.

Remember the series of fun little nutritional books that came out several years ago called Eat This, Not That? The idea the books centered around was, “Don’t eat that unhealthy thing. Eat this similar but healthy thing instead.”

Sadly, many Christian women have only been getting half the story. “Not that” (preaching to/teaching men and exercising authority over men) is biblically correct, but it’s not biblically complete. If all you tell someone is “Don’t eat that,” without showing her the “Eat this,” part, what she needs to eat to be healthy, she’s going to starve, and the church will be malnourished as well.

Christian women need our pastors to teach us to eat the fat of the land of being properly trained in the Scriptures and drink the sweet wine of leading and instructing the church the way God gifts us and requires us to. Only then will the Body be healthy and well nourished.