I had no idea who “Cliffe” in this video is, until I reposted it on X (thanks to Jon Root for the original) with my comments, and followers informed me that this is Cliffe Knechtle, who (along with his son, Stuart) seems to be an open air apologist with a large following on YouTube.
I’m hoping Cliffe just had a no good, very bad day on the day this was recorded and that he goes back, examines the pertinent texts more carefully (and in context), repents, and publicly corrects his errors.
Because, for someone who – I’ve been told – is a respected apologist, this is embarrassingly bad, not to mention, deceptive, even if he didn’t mean it to be.
Let this be an example of how to critically evaluate teaching according to Scripture. And, in case any of your friends and loved ones hold some of these same errant beliefs, here’s how you can help them see the truth of Scripture.
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So, ladies, let this be an example to you of how to critically evaluate teaching according to Scripture. And, in case any of your friends and loved ones follow Cliffe or hold some of these same errant beliefs, let me offer a biblical corrective you can use to help them see the truth of Scripture. Open your Bible and follow along with the video. Cliffe’s words below are in bold. (I’ve also interspersed some additional helpful resources.)
“Paul writes that women are not to be pastors.”
No, “God writes…”. Paul penned it, but 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7 is God’s Word. God’s idea, not Paul’s. Paul wrote down what the Holy Spirit breathed out.
Now I’m guessing Cliffe would probably agree with me about that, and I, myself, use that kind of phraseology sometimes, too, but it’s important to remind ourselves – especially with passages of Scripture that broken, sinful human beings have made controversial, like this one – that this is God speaking, not Paul, the sinful human being dreaming this up and imposing it on the church.
“I don’t think that’s a fair translation.”
Then how come every single trustworthy translation of the Bible (and even a lot of the untrustworthy ones) translate it that way? Is Cliffe an expert in the biblical languages and knows better than all the expert Bible translation teams who translated it the way he disagrees with?
Furthermore, although it’s a true summary of what he did write, Paul didn’t write, “Women are not to be pastors.” It’s important to rightly handle and accurately quote the actual text when you’re teaching a biblical concept.
It’s important to rightly handle and accurately quote the actual text when you’re teaching a biblical concept.
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“He does write, ‘I do not permit a woman to have authority over a man.'”
No, He (God) writes, “I do not allow a woman to TEACH OR exercise authority over a man…”. Again, it’s important to rightly handle and accurately quote the actual text when you’re teaching a biblical concept.
It’s also important to incorporate the entire body of text that applies to the issue you’re dealing with. In this case, that would be not just 1 Timothy 2:12, but 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7 and Titus 1:5-9. The pastoral qualifications in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 are also crystal clear (“Husband of one wife,” and male pronouns throughout, anyone?) that pastors must be men.
“And yet Paul had a partner in ministry named Priscilla…”
Not in the sense that she was a pastor or taught or exercised authority over men in the gathering of the body, or he would have been the biggest hypocrite in the Bible, because that would have violated God’s breathed out Word – which Paul wrote – in 1 Timothy and Titus. Scripture nowhere characterizes Priscilla as a pastor or any sort of egalitarian “partner in ministry” to Paul that in any way violated clear, New Testament, didactic passages on the role of women in the church.
“…who taught the great preacher Apollos.”
Read the actual passage in Acts 18:24-28. It’s not like she was his seminary professor and she trained him for the pastorate. She and Aquila heard him preach an incomplete gospel and pulled him aside privately and corrected him. Once. Briefly. We have no idea how much of the correcting Priscilla herself did, but even if she did all of it, this does not violate 1 Timothy 2:11-3:7 because that passage prohibits women from pastoring, teaching, and exercising authority over men in the gathering of the Body.
In the Acts 18 passage, Priscilla was not a pastor, nor was she teaching or exercising authority in the gathering of the Body. This was a private meeting, possibly even led by her husband.
There isn’t a woman in Scripture whose actions prove that it’s biblically OK for women to pastor, preach to, or exercise authority over men in the church. Not a single one. Check out:
Oh No, She Di-int! Priscilla Didn’t Preach, Deborah Didn’t Dominate,
and Esthers Wasn’t an Egalitarian.
“So what on earth is he saying when he says, ‘I don’t allow a woman to have authority over a man’? I would argue…that he’s pointing out that in Ephesus… there was a goddess, Diana of the Ephesians, so there was massive confusion about sexual roles…”
Why would you argue that, brother? God plainly tells us His reason for prohibiting women from pastoring, teaching, or exercising authority over men in verse 12. It’s right there in verses 13-14…
For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.
1 Timothy 2:13-14
…and it has nothing to do with Ephesus, Diana, confusion about sexual roles, women abusing their freedom in Christ, or education (which he mentions later in the video). God clearly and unequivocally tells us His reasons for this command: the Creative order and the woman’s deception.
And when you replace God’s reasons in verses 13-14 with any other reason or explanation, you’re calling God a liar. You’re saying His reasons are wrong and yours are right. That you know better than God. That is a very dangerous and blasphemous statement to make.
What then? If some did not believe, does their unbelief abolish the faithfulness of God? May it never be! Rather, let God be true and every man a liar, as it is written,
Romans 3:3-4
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And overcome when You are judged.”
What does 1 Timothy 2:12 actually teach? Check out: Jill in the Pulpit?
“That’s [massive confusion about sexual roles due to the goddess, Diana of the Ephesians,]…” why he says in 1 Corinthians 11 and 14, he says, ‘I don’t allow a woman to teach a man’.”
That’s not what 1 Corinthians 11 and 14 say, that’s what 1 Timothy 2:12 says. First Corinthians 11:1-16 is about male headship and authority. It makes no mention of women teaching men. First Corinthians 14:26-40 is about keeping order in the worship service. It makes no mention of women teaching men.
Furthermore, while God may have, indirectly, been addressing some sort of “confusion about sexual roles” in 1 Corinthians 11 and 14, this sexual confusion had nothing to do with the “goddess, Diana of the Ephesians” because this is in Corinth, not Ephesus.
And again, 1 Timothy 2:12 is the verse that prohibits women from teaching men, and the reason for this prohibition is not “massive confusion about sexual roles due to the goddess, Diana of the Ephesians,” the reason is the Creative order and the woman’s deception, as verses 13-14 clearly tell us.
This kind of confusion and conflation is what happens when you depend on your memory instead of opening the Bible and reading the text, especially if it’s a passage you haven’t dealt with recently. (Trust me. I know. I’ve done it myself.)
“Some very strong Christians, whom I respect highly, disagree with me.”
That’s because what you’re saying is a completely unbiblical mangling of the text. Anyone with third grade reading comprehension skills should disagree with you.
“Paul had partners, who were women, in ministry.”
No he didn’t. Not in the egalitarian sense he’s trying to make these kids believe. (See above about Priscilla.) And if he’s referring to women besides Priscilla, there’s even less information about them in Scripture, so any pronouncement that these other women were pastors or egalitarian “partners” is not only pure conjecture, but also eisegesis of the highest order.
“If God gives a woman gifts, we’re to give women the opportunity to use those gifts.”
Certainly, within the parameters of Scripture. God, the giver of all gifts, has every right to place restrictions on how we may use those gifts. God has never gifted a woman to teach with the intent that she should use that gift to teach men in the church because that contradicts His written Word. If He did that, He would be a liar and a hypocrite and He would cease to be God. There are plenty of ways women can use the gifts of teaching and exhortation without violating God’s commands about the role of women in the church. Ask me how I know.🙂
My favorite apologetic responses to egalitarians?
The Mailbag: Counter Arguments to Egalitarianism
In fairness, we can’t see most of the audience, but notice that, of the audience members we can see, no one seems to have a Bible in his or her hands in order to be a good Berean and check out what Cliffe is saying against Scripture. And it doesn’t look like anyone is raising a hand to ask him any questions, either. (Hopefully, those things happened after the end of the video.)
Don’t just believe what you’re told. Go to God’s Word, be a good Berean, and check it out. And help your friends and loved ones to do likewise.
Don’t just believe what you’re told. Go to God’s Word, be a good Berean, and check it out. And help your friends and loved ones to do likewise.
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