Recently, one of my favorite blogs, ParkingSpace23 (a fantastic, doctrinally sound blog I’d encourage everyone to subscribe to), published an excellent article by John Chester called Still Be Discerning about Discernment Ministries. It’s all about John’s thoughts on discernment blogs and podcasts and why he has chosen to swear off of them.
John seems like a thoughtful guy and he handled what can be a touchy subject evenly, calmly, scripturally, and with grace. As someone who frequently writes on discernment topics, it gave me some good food for thought and an opportunity to biblically examine both my writing and reading/listening habits. It’s a great article, I was thankful for it, and I agree with a lot of his points.
But while John has decided not to partake of discernment blogs and podcasts, I still find discernment ministry to be an important aspect of this blog as well as my personal spiritual “diet”. Does that mean I think John, or any other Christian, is wrong for not wanting to regularly read or listen to discernment material? Absolutely not! But I’d like to present a bit of a different perspective regarding the value of discernment ministry.
In the first few paragraphs of his article, John draws a distinction between two different types of discernment ministries- a disctinction which I think is both astute and important. John differentiates between what I would call “propositional” discernment sites like CARM, and, if I’m understanding him correctly, mine – which generally post single, position paper-type articles on a given false teacher or false doctrine – and what I would call “daily news” discernment ministries such as Berean Research and Fighting for the Faith – which report on the shenanigans du jour of false teachers and apostate churches.
John’s position is that the propositional discernment ministries [PDM] can be helpful when needed, but he is not fond of the daily news discernment ministries [DNDM]. I think both can be beneficial, assuming they’re done biblically. Take a look at John’s points and my counterpoints, and then you can prayerfully decide whether or not it would be profitable for your sanctification to include discernment media as part of your spiritual fare.
John’s point: “[DNDMs] often spend much time dissecting sermons or blog posts that someone with even a rudimentary sense of discernment would have stopped listening to or reading within the first few phrases.”
Michelle’s counterpoint: “Someone with even a rudimentary sense of discernment” is the crucial phrase here. Perhaps John is blessed to pastor a body of believers who are good bereans and most of the Christians he knows are discerning. I hope that’s the case. It should be the case that every believer has “a rudimentary sense of discernment” and immediately rejects false doctrine when she hears it. Nothing would bring me more joy.
But, sadly, that’s not the case. In fact, in my experience, the exact opposite is true, especially among Christian women. The vast majority of Christians are very undiscerning when it comes to false teachers and false doctrine. Often, people lack discernment because they’re false converts. But because most churches don’t proactively teach discernment, there are also plenty of genuninely born again believers who take at face value that anything which wears the label of “Christian,” is sold at a Christian retailer, or is proclaimed by a Christian celebrity is biblical and trustworthy.
I know, because I used to be one of those undiscerning Christians who hadn’t been taught any better by my church. Sure, I could pick out charlatans like Benny Hinn or Todd Bentley, and I probably would have described people like Kenneth Copeland and Jesse Duplantis as “wrong” or “that’s not what Baptists believe” without really knowing why. But the Beth Moore Bible studies that every church I’ve ever been a member of has pushed on its female membership? I had no idea she was teaching false doctrine, especially since my own church was endorsing her books.
It wasn’t until I Providentially “stumbled across” Todd Friel’s TV program, Wretched, one night several years ago that I began to understand what false doctrine was, why it was wrong, biblically, and how it could hurt me and the church. And it wasn’t until I discovered Chris Rosebrough’s Fighting for the Faith that I learned how to compare everything to Scripture – to listen to sermons with a discerning ear and read Christian books with a discerning mind. Todd and Chris taught me the discernment no church ever bothered to mention to me. And from the myriad of discerning Christians I’ve known, heard from, and read about, people like me are the rule, not the exception.
It’s not right that the church isn’t teaching Christians how to be discerning. I think every biblically responsible discernment ministry would agree that it is the church’s job, not a discernment ministry’s, to teach Christians to be bereans. But that’s not happening. And I thank God for those ministries who are standing in the gap- who have helped thousands of Christians like me.
John’s point: “[DNDMs] are unbiblical. What I mean is that there seems to me to be no biblical model or mandate for this kind of ‘ministry’.”
Michelle’s counterpoint: John may hold more closely to the regulative principle than I do, which would, understandably, account for my difference in perspective from this point. We do a lot of things, both in church and in parachurch ministry, that there’s no specific biblical model or mandate for. There’s no biblical model or mandate for vacation Bible school or crisis pregnancy ministry or handing out gospel tracts or even writing for a Christian blog. Yet these, and many other ministries, can carry the gospel to the lost (I’ve heard of many people who have read/listened to DNDMs, realized they were false converts, and have become believers.) and edify the saved – just like discernment ministries can. And there’s certainly a biblical mandate for that.
John’s point: “Did Jesus ever engage in a point by point take down of a particular Pharisee’s teaching that is recorded in Scripture? How much do we know about the Nicolaitans…in Revelation 2:15?… Or… the Colossian heresy…in Colossians 2:8?”
Michelle’s counterpoint: Jesus didn’t do sermon reviews (that we know of) the same way Chris Rosebrough does. But He did publicly enumerate and correct many of the Pharisees’ false teachings in Matthew 23. He publicly clarified Scripture and corrected unbiblical beliefs and false teachings – “You have heard it said…but I say to you…” – in the Sermon on the Mount. He publicly warned people against the false teaching of the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees. And every time those scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees confronted Him with questions or after a miracle, He set them straight for the whole crowd to hear.
As to the Nicolaitan and Colossian heresies, Colossians and Revelation 2 were addressed to particular churches. Just because we may not know much about these heresies doesn’t mean the Ephesian and Colossian churches weren’t thoroughly familiar with them. Perhaps that’s why John and Paul didn’t elaborate- because their intended audiences were already knowledgeable about those heresies. And perhaps the reason they might have been familiar with those heresies is that they were constantly being warned about them. Every book in the New Testament (except Philemon) warns against false teaching or false teachers.
Not so with the church today. Christians are not only not being warned about the heresies and false teachers running rampant in evangelicalism, undiscerning pastors are actually embracing false teachers, inviting them to speak at their churches, simulcasting their conferences, sharing their social media posts, and ordering their materials for the church’s small groups. And the church at large is so biblically illiterate that Christians have no idea they’re being fed false doctrine.
John’s point: “Curiously many discernment mavens will quote 1 Peter 3:15 as a text that supports what they do. But to be blunt, it doesn’t, not by a long shot…. This is about being ready to proclaim Christ to those who would persecute you.”
Michelle’s agreement: I could not agree with this point more. This verse isn’t about discernment. (I usually hear this verse more frequently in support of apologetics ministries, and it isn’t about apologetics, either.) It’s about evangelism.
One of the main features of today’s false doctrine is the twisting of Scripture and ripping it out of context. How can we who do discernment work rebuke false teachers for taking Scripture out of context and then turn right around and do the same to justify our own ministries? We know better. Specks and logs, anyone?
There are plenty of other passages of Scripture (such as the ones I’ve cited above and others) that speak of the importance of warning against false teachers and removing false doctrine from the church. We should not be using a verse that has nothing to do with discernment to justify discernment ministry.
John’s point: “Don’t get me started on the lack of gentleness and respect [from 1 Peter 3:15] that permeates many of these blogs and podcasts.”
Michelle’s agreement/counterpoint: John is right, here. Some of the discernment ministries that (incorrectly) claim the first part of 1 Peter 3:15 as justification for their ministry are not following the second part of the verse which says to “do so with gentleness and respect”. There are discernment ministries whose articles I absolutely will not share or link to because their snideness and name calling are so over the top it overshadows the valid point they’re trying to make, sometimes even damaging their own credibility.
At the same time, we do see instances of Jesus using harsh language and calling false teachers names, and Paul, Elijah, and others couldn’t always be characterized as gentle or respectful.
The thing is, their cultural context was a little different from ours, and these are descriptive passages, not prescriptive. Sometimes different cultures call for different approaches. Additionally, one woman’s “gentle and respectful” is another woman’s “harsh and unkind.” I’ve written discernment articles that were characterized as hateful by some Christians and too nice toward the false teacher by others- both about the same article!
Although I fail miserably at it – often – I try to use 2 Timothy 2:24-26 as my guideline when I write:
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
It not only reminds me of how to contend for the faith (not quarrelsome, kind, patient, gentle), it reminds me who I’m contending for (those being held captive by Satan’s snare of false doctrine), and why I’m contending (that they might repent, know the truth, come to their senses, and escape captivity).
John’s point: “[DNDMs] are unhealthy…’you are what you eat’…A diet of constant critical speech and reading is naturally going to produce a critical spirit.”
Michelle’s agreement: This is absolutely true. I don’t know whether it makes me over-critical or not, but when I OD on discernment media it certainly makes me feel angry, frustrated, depressed, and that there’s no hope for the church. It takes my eyes off Christ and the very real salvific and sanctifying work He is still doing in churches across across the globe, and causes me to focus on the monster of false doctrine instead.
It’s exceedingly important that we not go overboard on discernment or any other single aspect of theology or or spiritual life. In order to be spiritually healthy, we must have a balance of all the good things: discernment, Bible study, prayer, evangelism, fellowship, worship, service, etc. When I find myself spending too much time in Discernment Land, I know it’s time to step back and readjust my focus.
John’s point: “They are not very helpful…I don’t think very many Christians, especially the kind who read theological blogs, are going to be taken in by [blatantly obvious false teachers].”
Michelle’s agreement/counterpoint: I’ve already shared my thoughts on the helpfulness of discernment ministries for Christians who are not discerning, but, if I’m understanding him correctly, I think what John is saying here is that Christians who are already discerning aren’t going to be taken in by false teachers, and, therefore, have little need for regular consumption of discernment media. I generally agree with that. I still subscribe to a few DNDMs and peruse their daily headlines, not because I need to learn discernment, but because I like to know what’s going on in the church, just like people skim section A of the newspaper because they like to know what’s going on in the world.
I might add, though, that just because someone is the type of person who reads theological blogs doesn’t mean he’s on top of things, discernment-wise. Thom Rainer writes a theological blog (and books, and has a seminary Ph.D), yet persists in allowing false doctrine onto the shelves of LifeWay despite the many rebukes he has received from pastors, seminarians, lay people, and, yes, discernment media. Not long ago, I took a class via video from a conservative Southern Baptist seminary president who positively (albeit in passing) cited Beth Moore and Rick Warren in one of the sessions. And these are just two isolated examples. There are many more.
John’s point: “[DNDMs] often have significant blindspots…In their rush to expose the errors of others, often discernment bloggers/podcasters can overlook real problems with themselves or with their theological allies, especially in the areas of tone and conduct.”
Michelle’s agreement: This is so true. There’s no way I could disagree with this, because I have been guilty of it myself far too often. I would only add that this is not a problem specific to discernment ministry. Every ministry has blind spots because every Christian has blind spots. We’re all guilty of hypocrisy, myopia, failure, and sin. And, because we’re believers, when a brother or sister points out our sin, we repent, we receive God’s wonderful, cleansing, restorative grace, mercy, and forgiveness, and we move forward in obedience to Him and His word.
John closes out his insightful article with this thought:
I am not saying that you must swear off “discernment” blogs and podcasts, but I am saying I did, for the reasons above along with others, and I think I am better off for it. I would challenge you to consider what I have written and to think deeply about your spiritual diet. I am exhorting you to be discerning about discernment ministries.
I am not saying you must partake of discernment blogs and podcasts. But I am saying I do, for the reasons above along with others, and I think I am better off for it. I would challenge you to consider what John and I have written and to think deeply about your spiritual diet. I am exhorting you to think about it, study about it, pray about it, and discern what God would have you do about consuming discernment media.
Michelle Lesley 
I like how you mentioned the Bereans. Being immersed in the Word truly does help discern between truth and error. I can actually sense the error at times before my mind has made all the connections! I also think it is helpful for New Christians to learn the principles of hermeneutics—it helps them consider the Bible more analytically.
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So true, Elihu! :0)
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I agree with a lot of what this author said, but I think he is woefully ignorant about women in particular and how easily they are taken in. Most women I know would rather do a “canned” study than expositional study of the pure word of God. If the men in the church are not vetting these studies properly, that’s where we get into trouble.
I’ve been following you for awhile now, and you’ve never come off snarky or judgemental. Still, his caution too check ourselves is always valid to ensure our motives are pure and in accordance with God’s Word.
Keep doing what you’re doing and blowing the trumpet. I appreciate your insight and wisdom.
K
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Aw, thanks so much for your words of encouragement!
The more I work with Christian women, the more fraught with meaning the phrase “weak women” in 2 Timothy 3:6 becomes. If you look at the demographics of those being deceived by false teachers, the number of women is much higher than the number of men, and many of the men sitting under false teachers were introduced to them by their wives.
It is completely understandable that a male pastor who – rightly – spends far more time with Christian men than Christian women, and has to focus his time in areas other than discernment, would not be aware of this. The view from the pew is different from that of the pulpit, and pink spectacles see things differently from blue, too. :0) That’s why discerning women have an extremely important role in the church. Our pastors are often unaware of how easily and how often women are deceived, and somebody has to wade into the mud and pull our sisters out.
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I agree with you. We women are more susceptible to spiritual deception. There’s a reason Satan chose to seduce Eve rather than Adam.
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Excellent, excellent article. I think your counterpoints are very valid. I would call myself naturally discerning on a local church level. But I had absolutely no idea of the national or even global apostasy that has and continues to take place until I started researching 6 months ago. I think it’s important so for us to be aware of what’s going on in the church, but a balance is, indeed, important. Like you, I get irritable and discouraged when I overdose on discernment websites. That’s when I know I need to remove myself for a time.
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Well said, Emily :0)
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Of course we should be discerning about discernment ministries, but I wonder why John Chester doesn’t speak up about the false teachers leading people astray? Because if it weren’t for the wolves, there wouldn’t be a need for discernment ministries. And when you see all the false teaching by women bloggers (Jen Hatmaker, Jamie the Very Worst Missionary, Rachel Held Evans, etc.) who women flock to, John should be speaking up against those.
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I want to be careful that I don’t assume John is not speaking out against false teachers. He is a pastor and a Master’s Seminary (John MacArthur’s seminary) graduate. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to learn that he trains his congregation in discernment and has written other pieces (I haven’t read everything he’s ever written) decrying false doctrine/false teachers. Although I have a different perspective from John on a few points of this one issue, I have no doubt that he is a godly man and faithful pastor with whom I would agree on the majority of theological issues.
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Point taken. I do wish he’d have affirmed the good discernment ministries more….such as yours!
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Lol, thanks Bethany :0)
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These ministries are necessary, and sadly, will always be because there will always be wolves to the very end. Discernment ministries are serving a purpose as long as there are churches the size of stadiums with multiple locations filled with “pastors” teaching only about themselves and mentioning Jesus barely in passing. Whether they are creating false converts or stunting the growth of babes, they must be stopped. Discernment done right is a tiny light shining on this dark internet of ours.
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Sadly, I must agree. I would love nothing better than for the church at large to begin teaching discernment so there’s no more need for discernment ministries, but until that day, we must keep on keeping on.
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I think that these discernment ministries are important, especially in a day when so many Christians are so starved for sound Biblical teaching that they have no discernment. People need to be warned about the wolves.
I do also agree with many of his concerns, especially about the lack of gentleness and respect – and I love your thoughts on this. There are a few discernment ministries that will not even get a “click” from me, no matter how great the article might be or how many friends “share” it because of the callous and often abusive manner in which they conduct themselves.
Here’s the thing, and a thing that you do very well here – “discernment” must include Bible teaching. People who are taught the truth, taught basic hermeneutics, and are regularly hearing expository preaching will begin to be discerning on their own. Teaching the truth is as important, actually more important, than constantly pointing out the error. Telling everyone what it wrong with the latest celebrity pastors teaching is not helpful if they aren’t also hearing good teaching. A good discernment ministry teaches the truth – teaches people to be Bereans – as much or more than they point out error.
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Excellent points, Jessica, and thank you for the kind words :0)
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I am glad that I found this discernment blog, that is, that God sovereignty directed me to it. I was one of those women who essentially idolized a deceived women’s “Bible” teacher. I had no idea, until I started noticing some red flags and did some research online. My pastor had not warned the women in our church against this teacher either. He didn’t realize she supported false views. It was rough, has been tough, learning how to relate to the true Lord in the right way, and realizing that there is far more I need to learn about the real Lord. Not the false Lord (and how I should expect Him to interact with me as a true believer). I have run the gamut of emotions from sadness to frustration to anger to feeling sorry for the deceived Bible teacher I once looked up to so much. I have tried to warn others on social media and in person, but have largely been ignored or dismissed by those still enamored with these popular, but erroneous “Bible” teachers. I feel betrayed by and am deeply disappointed by Lifeway, and by many of the leaders of the southern baptist convention. Words are not adequate some days though to express that feeling of isolation because I know that things are not what they should be in the church in America. I, like so many still around me, thought everything was fine, and exciting things were ahead. Everything is not fine though, but I do think exciting things still lie ahead because He is still sovereign and in control…I have to choose to focus on what is good, what is true, all those things because in the end, deception will not win. He will never be without a true witness. In my mind, this blog is proof of that. I’m glad He is using you in this way, for His glory, with this blog.
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Hi Katie-
Thanks so much for your kind words. If it is any consolation, you are not alone. I have heard from hundreds of women who have written what you wrote almost verbatim. It upsets me that pastors don’t pay more attention to what’s going on in their women’s ministries/Bible studies.
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Matthew 22:29 Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
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There are some writers to whom snarkiness and sarcasm is as important as their discernment points and counterpoints. A little snark and sarcasm is fine but it is not necessary to add a sarcastic remark to every single comment cited of the person who you are writing about. It becomes tiresome and unreadable, and I lose interest in what the writer is writing about.
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Agreed. :0)
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Regarding your comments on 1 Peter 3:15 about apologetics and evangelism, how do you define the difference in the two. It seems to me that a good apologetic’s goal is to proclaim the gospel effectively, but your comment seemed to point to something differently.
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Hi Kevin- It could be that you and I have different things in mind when we say “apologetics.” To me, apologetics is focused on presenting and debating evidence when confronted with the typical unbeliever’s smoke screen arguments: the Bible’s been translated so many times it must be full of errors, you can’t prove there’s a God, the Flood was just a myth, the problem of evil and suffering, etc. Trust me, I love apologetics and have read a lot about it, but my experience has been that most of the time these types of arguments are brought up by the lost person as an effort to avoid the gospel because it hits too close to home. It’s one thing to talk textual criticism, it’s an entirely different ball of wax to hear you’re a sinner on your way to hell who needs to repent and trust Christ.
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Hi Michelle,
I was reading in your bio that you have an undergraduate psych degree and did some masters work in family counseling. Now that you are seemingly called to discernment, women’s Bible studies and are delving into apologetics, don’t you wish you had some background in ancient languages so you could actually decipher the original Biblical text instead of relying the translation of others? At the least don’t you wish that you had some formal education in scripture or Bible school? I know I do 🙂
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I have wanted to take Greek and Hebrew for years, and I do take on line seminary courses when I have the chance. I’m not sure what that has to do with my previous degree/graduate work? Also, are you the same commenter “MB” who was asking me about this the other day?
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Mary Beth,
You don’t need a background in the ancient languages if you have the proper tools and know how to use them correctly. I’m sure Benny Hinn has some kind of formal training with the original languages, yet he constantly gives false information as to the meaning and usage of original words, such as claiming the Hebrew word for “dominion” meant Adam could do everything the animals could do; swim with the fish, fly with the birds, etc.
Here is a list of resources that can help:
http://bereansdesk.blogspot.com/2012/07/my-recommended-resources.html
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Hi, It seems like people are just wanting others to think for them. We all have the same Holy Spirit and Bible if we are Christians. So I am hard pressed to see people hovering over every word of discerners. The Holy Spirit will rebel agaisnt the false teachings.—– I would encourage you to get Machen’s greek textbook. He dedicated to his mother and he was quite the discerner. He almost fought early 20th liberalism all by himself.Bill Mounce has easy to learn books on greek and free online classes. Many of the guys I knew took Machen’s book before school, worked it through and could read Mark before ever attending a class. They refused to let others think for them. This was in college and many I knew took a test and got out of taking first year greek at seminary. Studying the bible is very important especially in the original languages. I encourage to take a step and study it on your own. It can be done. May the Lord richly bless you.
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Hi Michelle l was so blessed to find you. I was one of those women who followed particularly Joyce Myer. Creflo Dollar. Joel Osteen. Joseph Prince etc. One reason being i only had my T,V.as my resource. Since receiving the giftof a “Tablet”my world has 0pened up to Youchube Google etc. I prayed for discernment due to the fact i’m the only practising Christian in my family. I repented to my chilren/grandchildren that i was wrong to have followed false teachers, iwanted to learn so much and as i said with limited resources. They respect my Faith and will often still discuss why and what i believe. I have spent many hours listening to programs like “Wretched” which is helping me to discern more carefully. Including in the Church i’m currently attending.i dont know where this will lead me, but i do know with Gods guidence and people He has given the Gift of discernment to also guide me His Will Be Done. Thank you Dolores Australia. (I turn 80 this year)never too late.
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Hi Michelle its me again i was quite emotional after i’d sent the message to you. I want to add i repented first to My Father God , then to my family. The Christ Like Love in your reply to John and others ,has helped me to see the areas i need to grow in .yours sincerely Dolores
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Dolores, you are so right, it’s never too late! I’m rejoicing with you that the Holy Spirit has opened your eyes to the truth.
I’m not sure I’m totally clear on whether or not the church you’re currently attending is doctrinally sound, but if it’s not and you need to find a new church, be sure to check the “Searching for a new church?” tab at the top of this page. There are some good church search engines there. :0)
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Dolores- I shared your comment on my Facebook page. I just wanted you to know how much your testimony encouraged my readers, especially other Aussies. :0) You can see all of their comments here: https://www.facebook.com/MichelleLesleyDiscipleship/posts/2130194137027344?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARA9EoxXheNRuMDS7RmUTtpNjRY_EQLUSAovzIXCMGNQlDgW_CU0-fqBp02HkF7I_7V2J4y1GL_JHT-V8v7bLIsQS7yMUXooEMjFgVFMBKhdHbl8GKQ4dALhH89FxJggUX6Rrirdpwqi0ZASDk4dOjejCiiFiGh2E9kNw5Dx1XcWBqDztt9QjXDThIspl-yWyZkQdnQoKf-FiigRYQZnKOEKm32AJif0tNXdqEe_m8nD8m0tLcVBeQh68fQ73R2dMowgt8qEfgT_PCwxVhyoFN2iigJ7TIf2ibehGkmBWwfE3IsteKUW7bnwsqb1G02TW2i5ks0W0Ga7uE7tKfysdQ&__tn__=-R
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Thank you Michelle. I’ve intended on writing a similar blog for sometime, because of the ridicule, and snideness of some ‘discernment’ ministries. Very distasteful, and dishonouring to others in discernment work, portraying a wrong picture of discernment ministries. I agree with all of your counter points. The ‘Church’ is not being warned about false doctrine, nor taught apologetics, and Biblical hermeneutics. I was caught up in the false prophetic movement for 30 years, even tho’ I graduated from two separate Bible Schools, because I accepted the twisting and out of context Scripture applications of those I listened to. The evangelical church is being infiltrated and over run with false doctrine and aberrant practices. I can not but expose these egregious and horrendous deceptions! Thanks again for a clear, wise, observant response to discerning discernment ministries. We desperately need them, and we desperately need to be discerning of others and ourselves. God bless. Daryl (I would like ti share your post if possible.)
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Hi Daryl – Thanks for your kind comment. I rejoice with you that God brought you out of the darkness of false teaching and into His marvelous light! You’re more than welcome to share this post, or any other, with proper attribution (I don’t want you to get blamed for what I wrote! :0)
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